Council tax unpaid for gap in tenants - now being chased

mrrossi

Hi all

Need some advice please!

18 months ago I moved house from, say, 10 Green Street, and moved into 20 Brown Street.

I also own a property I rent out, 30 Black Street.

Today I got a message from the new people living at Green St. It was marked urgent so I asked them to open it. Turns out it's an enforcement agency saying they tried to visit to "take control" of my goods to the value of £444 for unpaid council tax!

This is the first I know of any thing owing. I then noticed it references my rental property, Black St.

I changed tenants at Christmas last year and the property was unoccupied for about a month - something I'd forgotten about unfortunately. So guessed that this was related. Rather than call the enforcement agency I called Nottingham City Council to try and find out why they'd not contacted me. I spoke to someone and they said they'd sent me letters - to 10 Green St. Well I haven't lived there for 18 months! I told them I'd informed them when I moved from 10 Green St to 20 Brown St. And I've been paying my own council tax for Brown St since. They said that the account for 30 Black St (rental) did not 'link' to that account so they did not 'know' that I was at Brown St now.

So seems they've been sending them to the old address at Green St.

I then recalled that back in March the new owners said I had a letter for me about council tax. I ignored it as I recalled some earlier 'confusion' from them about where I lived now and I'd sorted all that out. The new owner then got another letter for me in April so I said I'd ring the council and sort it.

I called them and informed them of my new address and they made some comment about it being updated in one place and not another and that was now done.

I realise now that the letter was probably referencing my Black St rental property! But I hadn't seen the letter and didn't know that... shouldn't they have known what the issue was when I rang them?!?

And why didn't they try sending letters to the rental property at Black St? The tenants would have let me know.

I don't mind paying the months council tax, I'm not keen on paying the excess charges.

Who's to blame? Me for forgetting? But I rang them in April - obviously they didn't put 2+2 together - but neither did I.

Do I have to pay the full fee? If this is the "first" time they've been able to make contact with me?

Thanks
Ross

[Deleted User]

It's you. If you gave a contact address for the rental property of your old address, you would have needed to specifically update it.

I'd get it paid before it escalates.

AdrianC

You were liable for a month's council tax on 30 Black St, as of Dec17/Jan18.
The council contacted you in March at the last known address they had for you on the 30 Black St file - which was 10 Green St.
The new occupant told you about that contact. You ignored it.
You were told about a second contact in April. You didn't actually read that letter - just assumed the contents. Wrongly, unfortunately.
You then spoke to the council, and made sure that the 10 Green St council tax account was fully changed to 20 Brown St - but did you mention 30 Black St? If not, how were they meant to connect it to you?


If it's gone to enforcement now, then it's no longer in the council's gift to waive the fees. You're going to need to deal with the court who have already dealt with the case.

Fosterdog

Did you contact the council at all when your tenants mover out to take over the council tax account as the owner? Or to arrange a discount for it being empty? Did you not enter the property at all in that time to check the mail to notice the demands sent? What about the new tenants? Do they not have your contact details to let you know they were receiving demands?

G_M

I think you get the idea from the comments above!


You're in business - as a landlord. You have to run that business efficiently or...... things can come back to bite you!

mrrossi

Thanks all - you're all right - I'm an idiot

Can't I use Homer Simpson's excuse "but it's my first day?".

I did enter the property between tenants and there were no letters from the council to me - they were sent to my old address - and I completely forgot to inform them, as I was expecting/hoping to have my new tenants in within only a few days - unfortunately it took a month.

What is now a very expensive month!!

Lesson learnt.

Frustrating thing is, just been to the old address and collected a massive pile of letters. New owners had been informing us of mail for the first 6 months of so but understandably didn't so regularly after that, most mail was junk - seems they had a pile built up , some of which had 'return to sender' on - but they hadn't put back in the post or let me know. So there was about 8 letters from the council and collection agency waiting!! Even a court summons!!! !!!!!! why didn't anyone put 'URGENT' on the outside of those?!? Then the new owner would have let me know (like they did with todays letter).

* sigh *

Wine is helping.

saajan_12

mrrossi wrote: »

Hi all

Need some advice please!

18 months ago I moved house from, say, 10 Green Street, and moved into 20 Brown Street. - did you sell 10 Green Street or let it? Any mail redirection?

I also own a property I rent out, 30 Black Street.

Today I got a message from the new people living at Green St. It was marked urgent so I asked them to open it. Turns out it's an enforcement agency saying they tried to visit to "take control" of my goods to the value of £444 for unpaid council tax!

This is the first I know of any thing owing. I then noticed it references my rental property, Black St.

I changed tenants at Christmas last year and the property was unoccupied for about a month - was it also substantially unfurnished? Check the council for 30BS - they may have some discounts for empty properties (often limited to a period becfore it becomes a penalty) - something I'd forgotten about unfortunately. So guessed that this was related. Rather than call the enforcement agency I called Nottingham City Council to try and find out why they'd not contacted me. I spoke to someone and they said they'd sent me letters - to 10 Green St. Well I haven't lived there for 18 months! I told them I'd informed them when I moved from 10 Green St to 20 Brown St. - Did you inform them in relation to 30BS? I think council tax woudl be indexed by property, not by owner (else what if two people have the same name or live in the same place but have accounts for other properties). However if you told them any accounts registered to 10GS should be moved to 20BS then there is an argument that they shoudl have moved the correspondence address.. depends on exactly what was said. And I've been paying my own council tax for Brown St since. They said that the account for 30 Black St (rental) did not 'link' to that account so they did not 'know' that I was at Brown St now.

So seems they've been sending them to the old address at Green St.

I then recalled that back in March the new owners said I had a letter for me about council tax. I ignored it as I recalled some earlier 'confusion' from them about where I lived now and I'd sorted all that out. The new owner then got another letter for me in April so I said I'd ring the council and sort it. - irrelevant

I called them and informed them of my new address and they made some comment about it being updated in one place and not another and that was now done.

I realise now that the letter was probably referencing my Black St rental property! But I hadn't seen the letter and didn't know that... shouldn't they have known what the issue was when I rang them?!?- irrelevant

And why didn't they try sending letters to the rental property at Black St? The tenants would have let me know. - because that was never your correspondence address.

I don't mind paying the months council tax, I'm not keen on paying the excess charges.

Who's to blame? Me for forgetting? But I rang them in April - obviously they didn't put 2+2 together - but neither did I.- depends what you said in April: change all records of 10GS to 20BS or just close the CT for 10GS and move

Do I have to pay the full fee? If this is the "first" time they've been able to make contact with me? - Its not their responsibility to find wherever you are in the world and 'make contact'. It depends on whether they were correct initially in contacting you at 10GS or whether they should ahve change the correspondence address to 20BS. A letter posted to the correct address is sufficient, they don't need to make sure you receive / open it.

Thanks
Ross

The key is whether you informed the council and they confirmed they changed your correspondence address from 10GS to 20BS for all accounts. If yes, then you may have an argument. If no, then all the back and forth with the new owners / tenants and who would have forwarded mail or tried harder to make contact is irrelevant.

This is where mail forwarding really helps!

p00hsticks

mrrossi wrote: »

New owners had been informing us of mail for the first 6 months of so but understandably didn't so regularly after that, most mail was junk - seems they had a pile built up , some of which had 'return to sender' on - but they hadn't put back in the post or let me know. .

That's several months longer than I would have put up with this if I were the new owner - I give previous owners a few weeks grace for them to ensure that any redirection they have put in place is working, and after that anything I get addressed for them in the next few omnths gets put straight back in the mail marked 'return to sender'. After that it's simply binned.

mrrossi

I had the redirection service for 3 months and sorted "everything" in that time - well, I'd ticked council tax off my list but clearly hadn't realised they weren't linked! Everything else was junk mail

[Deleted User]

Same happened to me, moved cities, thought all things that required new address had been notified. What I didn't expect was council tax to be charged incorrectly. Two years later I received a large bill, just before court case. As it shouldn't have even be charged, and I had some help, I did manage to get the debt written off.

But until that point I met a brick wall from council tax collections dept, told it was too late to appeal and all they had to do was send bills to the last known address although they managed to find my address two years later for the court summons.

I have learned my lesson, always pay for post forwarding for well over a year. Its a small cost compared to things like county court judgments lol.

mrrossi

Another related question - the council tax for this period is deductible as an expense, I believe. Is the full amount (council tax + fine/collection agency fees) still deductible?