bank closed sons account and accused him of fraud

Tallaght

The Police seem to target the money launderers under the term 'Conspiracy to defraud'.

EachPenny

jonnygee2 wrote: »

It's very unlikely there have been any. As mentioned its unlikely that the NCA is involved and the local police would need a court order to obtain information about the bank account. Either way the OP will probably never know unless they end up in a courtroom. If they wait for this information they will wait forever.

But that is - as far as I can see - on the basis the OP's son is being investigated as the possible perpetrator of a fraud agains the bank.

However, we know from the OP's post that the police are investigating the matter (at least initially) as a serious crime in which the OP's son is a victim. In which case the police would need to be in contact with his bank to verify the details given, and also to investigate where the money now is. As a victim, the OP's son would presumably have given the police and/or his bank the necessary authorisations to access his account details in order to allow the police investigation to proceed.

To be clear, all I'm saying is that it is impossible for us to know whether the OP's son's bank has made contact with the receiving bank, and therefore accusing the bank of a "significant failing of this banks anti-fraud procedure" and saying they have "failed to act appropriately" and "hindered any subsequent investigation", is at best premature.

I would say that until the OP's son has got some clarity from the police, it would be unwise to launch into a full-scale FoS complaint against the bank. Hence my first contribution to the thread being that they needed to speak to the victim support officer and see what help they could provide.

jonnygee2

I would say that until the OP's son has got some clarity from the police, it would be unwise to launch into a full-scale FoS complaint against the bank

I guess its up to the OP but personally I see no reason to wait. If the FOS complaint fails because of lack of evidence the OP can appeal against this judgement and submit the new evidence. As the bank is demanding money, I personally wouldn't wait to act.

masonic

jonnygee2 wrote: »

They aren't. If they suspected money laundering they would have to freeze the account and submit a SAR to the NCA, and in my experience it is extremely unlikely they would have managed to do this and get a reply from the NCA with consent to take action in two working days. Also, there's no reason to suspect money laundering in this case.

From the opening post of this thread "...they wont change their mind they say that his account is closed, and we (obviously) have to repay the money, he has been added to CIFAs"

It cannot be clearer that the bank is treating the OP's son is a party to the crime. If it is money laundering, then the bank could have picked up on it prior to the 'end game' of the OP's son being drugged and kidnapped, and finally going into the bank to report it. Reviewing the account history would clarify the situation.

Submitting a complaint to the FOS assuming one thing, when the facts are not known and turn out to point to something else, could backfire.

jonnygee2

It cannot be clearer that the bank is treating the OP's son is a party to the crime. If it is money laundering, then the bank could have picked up on it prior to the 'end game' of the OP's son being drugged and kidnapped

That's not how it works. Banks don't investigate or make decisions on money laundering. If they suspect money laundering they need to freeze the account and submit a SAR to the NCA who then make all the decisions. This process takes weeks and often months, not days. If they had suspected it and submitted a SAR before this happened the account would have been frozen before this happened. Also, I still don't get why anyone is thinking of money laundering when there's literally nothing to suggest it has happened?

He has been accused of a crime. He has been accused of defrauding the bank by falsely claiming a transaction as fraudulent. For this, banks can make the decisions themselves (in days if they wish so) and add to CIFAs.

Submitting a complaint to the FOS assuming one thing, when the facts are not known and turn out to point to something else, could backfire.

How could it backfire?

cloud_dog

jonnygee2 wrote: »

He has been accused of a crime. He has been accused of defrauding the bank by falsely claiming a transaction as fraudulent. For this, banks can make the decisions themselves (in days if they wish so) and add to CIFAs.

I don't think the bank has accused him of a crime otherwise they would have had to report it to the police, and they probably view this as there has been 'suspicious activity on the account'. Now, perhaps they have actually reported a crime to the police and for obvious reasons no one is confirming that; although it is strange that the police wouldn't have brought the OP's son in for questioning and / or advised him of his rights in that situation.

At present I believe the bank have taken the action they have based on their T&Cs for running the account, and that is how they have been able to act so swiftly.

jonnygee2

and they probably view this as there has been 'suspicious activity on the account'

I really don't know where anyone else on this thread is getting their information from. This is not to do with suspicious activity on the account. As (I have mentioned a few times?!) suspicious account activity is reported to the NCA with a suspicious activity report (SAR) and this takes longer than a few days.

If a SAR had been submitted it would have been illegal for the bank to add him to CIFAS or tell him the outcome of the investigation. Also, it would have been potentially illegal for you all to have written posts advising the OP that a money laundering investigation was likely to be taking place. So you better hope you are all wrong!!!

The banks allegation is about the actions of the account holder (attempt to defraud them), not about account activity.

@OP you can always submit a subject access request to CIFAs to find out what they are holding on your son!

cloud_dog

jonnygee2 wrote: »

I really don't know where anyone else on this thread is getting their information from. This is not to do with suspicious activity on the account. As (I have mentioned a few times?!) suspicious account activity is reported to the NCA with a suspicious activity report (SAR) and this takes longer than a few days.

I used the term in its most general context, not related to the specific SAR, which is why I believed they have been able to act quickly based on their standard T&Cs.

optomystic

thanks for your comments!

i have spoken to my son at length, and almost accused him myself, not of doing it, but by being stupid enough to get in their car.
its so hard for him,
and us to understand the whats and whys, because he cant remember, and what he does remember is crucial, especially in regard to the bank transaction, its an awful situation.

we do know the 1st call to the bank, made them aware he had his card and phone stolen and he didnt tell them any of the details. and the second call was much later.... after he had woken up, been the police station, been driven around by us to try and jog his memory, and then we went about trying to change passwords etc... none of us actually thought about this until much later, as we were angry and in shock, and who knows really what to do until after it happens?
in that 1st call, the bank told him everything was ok, and that is where they where wrong, they only checked card transactions, and without going into detail on here, we do know that there is nothing else going on here apart from what iv have stated already

he is just an ordinary teen, 1st year at uni, hes not a party animal, very much the opposite, hes not outgoing and is now not very confident. he has tried to deal with the bank himself, thinking he was doing the right thing,
but they have not listened, and now we find ourselves on here asking for advice as we have no idea what to do.
up to now some of you are correct in what you are saying, (jonnygee2 and eachpenny)
im thankful that the police are keeping us informed and that im more knowledgeable now having posted on here.
and dont worry, we have established all the facts before emailing FOS.
now my son is in a better place, my husband has calmed down and i know what im dealing with, im gonna turn on the bank!!

Butch_Dingle

OP,
If you don't mind, can you tell us who your son banked with? From my own experience, some banks are a nightmare to deal with wrt fraudulent/unauthorised transactions (Barclays is the standout candidate IMHO) while some are pretty good such as Nationwide and First Direct.