UKCPM, Gladstones. No permit displayed in work car park. Defence stage

hateUKCPM

I couldnt find the date change feature on google streetview or maps. The only place I could find it was google earth. Streetview doesnt go close enough to the entrances unfortunately so earth is the best i could do.

here are the images I'm using as exhibits 1 & 2 https://imgur.com/a/LStePCy you can see the car park change in the lower portion of the site.

Coupon-mad

Where is this place?

GoogleSV lets you change the date using the little arrow to the left of the image date, although I appreciate none of the images might show the signs.

KeithP

Here's a July 2018 StreetView image:

https://goo.gl/maps/rdjF4oL9jKSNmpSw6

A similar view May 2016:

https://goo.gl/maps/m54z1kY1xbp1Nhxb9

April 2017 and July 2017 are also available - both showing road works in place.

hateUKCPM

Ah brilliant, well sleuthed KeithP. I didn't think about looking at it from that street down the side, it doesn't get much clearer than that, I'll be adding these in now. you were right as well CM, I just didnt think to look at the street view of the site itself rather than of just the entrances.

I've got to get this sent off today really so once i've got these added in i'm going to be printing it off and sending to Gladstones via post and the Northampton county court via email.

Cheers for the help guys :beer:

Umkomaas

I've got to get this sent off today really so once i've got these added in i'm going to be printing it off and sending to Gladstones via post and the Northampton county court via email.

If this is your Witness Statement, it doesn't go to the Northampton CCBC, it should be printed, put in a neat ring binder with evidence in a separate section of the binder (with cross reference to each piece of evidence in the main body of the WS) and we recommend hand delivery to the court at which the hearing will take place. Do not send it to the court via email, if it's lengthy, they have a maximum on the number of pages they are prepared to print.

For Gladstones, send it via email, let them do their own printing.

hateUKCPM

Many thanks for the heads up, I didnt realise that. Saved me a bit of postage costs at least. Cheers!

On the layout front, I think ive got that sorted. I just copied Gladstones - Witness statement written at the front followed by the exhibits numbered on separate pages following what I'd written.

hateUKCPM

ok, so, I finally had my hearing, after having it postponed ANOTHER 6 months... and now I've got to wait another week for the decision to be sent to me via post

Even when I arrived I had to wait absolutely ages for my hearing, coming up to 3 hours from when I first arrived. What a killer. I went in and the judge seemed to think this should've been done as a paper hearing which they requested and also means I've got to wait for her final decision to arrive via post in about a week. It also meant no one from the claimant side turned up so it was just me, the judge, the usher and the guy who writes the transcripts in there. Judge said I wasn't allowed to deny their request to have a hearing pursuant to CPR 27.9 either, which was a bit annoying.

Went in, sat down, first thing brought up was the sign discrepancy. She basically threw this out from the start. They sent a supplemental witness statement that arrived a week before my hearing that mentioned how there was a grace period when switching between the two parking bodies. Despite them not showing any evidence for this she said it was completely reasonable and that I had broken the contract. She then made a few more points about the contract and how I wasn't displaying a permit and I could tell right away this was going to be an uphill battle. I decided not to go down the route of the sign not actually being a contract because I knew this would fall on deaf ears, and I wasn't confident enough that I would be able to convince her otherwise, so I moved swiftly on.

The second point I brought up was my strongest defence, and may have swung it in my favour. This was to do with the location where I parked being outside of the boundary that they said they enforced, and even better, me having evidence that I usually parked in a different spot to where they said I was parked (which coincidentally was a place that was INSIDE their enforcement boundary. hmm....). I dont think she was completely buying it until I pointed out that you could see exactly where my car was parked from the google streetview on the road down the side (thanks a million KiethP!), which put it in a completely different place than where they said I had parked. At that point it was on and I really sunk my claws in saying not only where they lying, but they had also only sent that arguement through on their supplementary witness statement that had been prepared after they had seen my defence, and had only arrived a week ago. It took a bit of time to explain, but I made sure I didnt move on from this argument until I was completely sure that the judge understood that they had blatantly lied in a court document. I could suddenly sense a change in attitude. It was pretty obvious going through proceedings that the judge hadn't read my defence beforehand so I was seriously on the back foot going in.

My third point she was interested in was the time between them spotting my car and issuing the ticket being 11 minutes. As it was a large industrial site I said it's entirely possible for someone to park at one end, walk for 5 minutes to get to the site manager to request permission, and have to walk 5 minutes back to their car thus only giving them one minute to actually get permission/a permit from the site manager which basically isn't possible. The judge asked why I didn't park any closer, answer was that I couldn't due to goods in or visitor parking etc. It was another solid point that she seemed to agree with.

I then went on to explain that the only way you could access the site was via key fob, so it wasn't even possible to park there without permission. Again, not much she said about that.

The judge mentioned at one point that that gladstones said I never provided proof I worked at Hamworthy Heating, yet I had included an image of my payslip in my defence! derp. what a bunch of idiots.

She then asked me if I had any other points I wanted to raise and I had another look through my witness statement but thought I had done enough and I didn't want to say too much in case I start to put the ball back in their court again. I just reiterated the fact that they lied about the position of my car, and the fact they sent a supplemental witness statement months after when I was first meant to have my court hearing, and just a week before this one.

So basically its going to come down to whether she thinks its worse that I broke the (non existent...) contract by not displaying a parking permit vs them deliberately lying in order to twist the evidence in their favour. I'm feeling pretty hopeful. Caught the Judge smiling after I put across some of points as well. I wasnt too sure what to make of that, didnt seem like they were wry smiles and she seemed fairly jovial at the end of the hearing.

Annoyingly I forgot to mention some points such as their illegal £60 extra fee, and whether or not I could claim back my costs. I'd appreciate it if anyone has any advice there.

Like I said, its about a weeks wait until I find out for certain, I'll update when it comes in. Cheers guys, definitely an interesting experience.

Coupon-mad

Annoyingly I forgot to mention some points such as their illegal £60 extra fee, and whether or not I could claim back my costs. I'd appreciate it if anyone has any advice there.

A bit late to ask but you could send her your costs schedule again (assuming you filed one in time) and say due to nervousness you forgot to draw your hearing attendance costs to her attention but would like them considered. And say how grateful you were for the court's time, in hearing you expose elements of the case that would not have been obvious with a paper hearing.

I'd post that on Monday morning 1st class, marked for her attention.

Let us know the outcome.

If the car was outside the enforcement boundary you absolutely cannot be bound by their scam terms inside.

hateUKCPM

Ok guys sorry I've been slow to update, tonnes of stuff going on at the mo.

Anyway, I won! :T

Amazing result. A massive thank you to everyone here and good luck for everyone in the future. These guys seem scary but it is possible to go up against them AND WIN even when the odds aren't on your side. I can finally chill out now having put this to rest after nearly 4 years. Phew! Cheers all :beer:

Umkomaas

On which point did you win? If it was because they were ticketing outside of their contracted area, and this is confirmed in the judgment, you can make life very uncomfortable for UKCPM.

Thanks for update ... and very well done. A very nasty monkey off your back.