I believe I got a ticket thanks to a faulty machine, but my appeal was rejected

blizeH

Hi,


I parked at an NCP car park last week, entered my registration details and tapped my contactless card and it processed without any sort of message or dispensing a ticket. I figured it was just linked to my registration, but since I wasn't 100% sure I decided to pay again this time on my phone, using ApplePay, and a different card.


This time my phone made the ping noise to signify a successful transaction, and it clearly showed the £7.50 on my ApplePay statement. I was kinda annoyed that I had paid twice, but it wasn't a big deal so went about my day and didn't think anything else of it... until I came back to my card to see a parking ticket


It turns out that despite my phone saying it had confirmed, and it showing on my ApplePay statement, the transaction hadn't gone through and my car wasn't registered on the system - when I checked my bank statement the next day it isn't on my actual bank statement either.


I appealed (including screenshot of my phone's statement), and it was rejected. I now have two options - pay £60, or risk taking it to POPLA and if I'm not successful, having to pay the full £100. Is it worth contesting, or should I just pay? It's frustrating because I did try to pay twice, and based on the feedback I was given, I think it was fair to think that the payment had gone through successfully.


Any suggestions on what to do please?

KeithP

blizeH wrote: »

Any suggestions on what to do please?

Appeal to PoPLA following the guidance offered in post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

Coupon-mad

Show us your draft POPLA appeal once you have read other examples; a typical POPLA appeal here is a storybook document of some 10 -12 pages long, with lots of detail and photos, and several template points must be included.

See the 3rd post of the sticky thread, where the POPLA templates are, and search the forum for POPLA phone app to read similar recent ones. You will definitely be including that screenshot showing the £7.50 on your ApplePay statement.

I would also be making a complaint to the Information Commissioner (ICO) about Applepay - it seems they processed a payment then LOST the data? You can complain about that sort of data concern (but must make a complaint to Applepay first, then the ICO).

blizeH

Thank you guys, I will read the sticky thread now


Good to know that a POPLA appeal should be 10-12 pages long... I guess what I'm wondering (and I know it's difficult to say for sure) but do you think it's actually worth appealing this?

The_Deep

I now have two options - pay £60, or risk taking it to POPLA and if I'm not successful, having to pay the full £100

Not so, A PoPLA decision is not binding on the motorist. Just as well as many PoPLA decisions are badly flawed. if you did lose at PoPLA and they took you to court, I would venture that they would crash and burn.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week, hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has even been suggested that some of these companies have links with organised crime.

Watch the video of the Second Reading and committee stage in the House of Commons recently. MPs have a very low opinion of this industry.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business in the not too distant future.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-19/debates/2b90805c-bff8-4707-8bdc-b0bfae5a7ad5/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill(FirstSitting

Coupon-mad

blizeH wrote: »

Thank you guys, I will read the sticky thread now

Good to know that a POPLA appeal should be 10-12 pages long... I guess what I'm wondering (and I know it's difficult to say for sure) but do you think it's actually worth appealing this?

Of course.

If you ignore it, NCP might try a small claim against you and thereby stress and harass you. NCP claims are on this forum right now from people who WRONGLY ignored their PCN.

And whilst we WIN defended claims almost every time (99% win rate, well worth defending) surely POPLA is sooo much easier to kill it off.

blizeH

Brilliant, thanks guys - I'll start my POPLA appeal now

blizeH

They sent this, along with a 25 page document and a 16 page document This is a long shot but is there a precedent for failing the POPLA appeal but still being able to negotiate the reduced £60 parking charge?

The motorist has appealed on the basis that they believed they had made a contactless payment via the ticket machine, they claim the machine did not dispense a ticket however the machine made a noise to imply the transaction was accepted. We appreciate the difficulties the motorist may have experienced, however should they have experienced problems making payment for a parking session using the payment machines on site, they should have paid for parking using the cashless provider service or called the NCP customer service telephone number. According to our records on the date of event, there were no pay and display machine faults reported for this location. There is signage displayed throughout this location with details of the facility to pay by phone with our Telephone payment service provider. The signage also displays our Customer Service Department contact telephone number (photographic evidence provided in section E) and had the appellant called us, to discuss any concerns or difficulties they were experiencing we would have been able to assist and advise them accordingly. Even if the cashless payment system (and the onsite payment machines) on a particular site are not working this does not entitle the driver to free parking. The contractual terms require the driver to purchase and display a valid ticket or make an online payment; otherwise by parking they agree to pay the charge. If the driver cannot purchase and display a ticket or make an online payment they can either park elsewhere, or remain parked and agree to pay the charge. It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that the terms and conditions of parking are adhered too. The British Parking Association guidelines state that a motorist is permitted no longer than 10 minutes to enter, read the signs and leave if they do not wish to be bound by the sites Terms and Conditions. Unfortunately, the appellant’s vehicle was present within the car park for substantially longer than the 10-minute grace period provided. There is signage on the entrance to the car park and multiple signs located throughout the site. NCP also place signage close to the pay and display machines in order to bring the Terms and Conditions to the attention of motorists. The Size and the font on the signage is British Parking Association approved and the BPA have indeed praised NCP for displaying signs larger than they recommend in their code of practice. The appellant had the opportunity to observe the sites Terms and Conditions when gaining the information on how to pay and how much to pay for a parking session as the Terms and Conditions are stated on our website and on the pay and display machines on site. There is also signage displayed throughout this location with details of the facility to pay by phone with our Telephone payment service provider. NCP is the best know brand in parking and therefore when a motorist enters one of NCP’s locations, they would on the balance of probabilities know they must pay for parking and abide by any regulation on site. Paragraph 5d of the sites Terms and Conditions clearly states In pay and display car parks you must do one of the following: which then details the paragraph 5d, which states you pay all amounts due for your parking and comply with the requirements set out at clause 10 (Ticket types and payment methods) of these Terms. For the avoidance of doubt, if you choose to pay the parking tariff by using the Pay By Mobile service, the payment must be made at the time of parking your vehicle in the Car Park and in any event, before you leave your vehicle in the Car Park. 10a) Pay and display – You must purchase a parking ticket from the ticket machines at the car park either with cash or a credit/debit card, before leaving your vehicle and ensure that the parking ticket is clearly displayed in the windscreen of your vehicle It is the responsibility of every motorist to observe and comply with the Terms and Conditions our facilities are provided and managed under and by leaving the vehicle the appellant indicated their acceptance of our displayed conditions and equally accepted that a PCN would be issued for non compliance of the displayed conditions. To conclude the PCN has been issued correctly for a clear breach of the displayed conditions and NCP have submitted sufficient evidence to support the enforcement of the Notice. POPLA state decisions will be based on finding of fact; the facts are that the appellant parked in clear breach of our displayed Terms and Conditions and NCP trust that POPLA will find no reasonable grounds to allow this appeal.

nosferatu1001

What did you not understand about post 6?

Also, this is just the operators submission, yes? Meaning no decision has yet been made?

blizeH

They presented a lot of evidence and "the facts are that the appellant parked in clear breach of our displayed Terms and Conditions and NCP trust that POPLA will find no reasonable grounds to allow this appeal." is pretty ominous.


But you're right that no decision has been made and that was just the operators submission. Thank you

nosferatu1001

THe operator makes their case the best they can
Of course they make it sound as good as they can!

We of course dont know how good an appeal you made, as you didnt follow the intructions back then either.