Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

[Deleted User]

• 1st Nov 18, 5:05 PM

Just read the Direct Debit Guarantee. At any time, you can speak to your bank and instruct them to reverse a Direct Debit payment (and there seems to be no time limit on when that payment was made, so quite possibly instruct to reverse payments made for a number of months).


There is a mechanism whereby the company who took the payment can appeal the reversal but, so long as you are being reasonable, I can't see that being an issue.


It's certainly a lot quicker (as in instantaneous!) than waiting for a refund.


https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/pages/directdebitguarantee.aspx

Hi Steve456,
Cheers for that info. My goodness, my learning curve over the last week or so has increased enormously since I joined this forum. I haven't half learned a lot about all this energy stuff. My thanks to Martin Lewis for setting it up. What a tremendous learning resource.:j

Me next topic will be about smart meters (when I have finished with this one).
ATB
Dougie.

Steve456

Ah! Smart meters! It would be hilarious were it not for the fact that the total waste of money was funded by . . . . . . . . that's right! You and me! Whether or not we had a Smart Meter, we were (and are) paying for the roll-out of these things. Even though they are (mostly) unusable if you dare to change supplier!

isayoldchap

Another enjoyable TV show yesterday evening with Martin

I'm sure he said if you leave an energy company and have a credit on account and that company goes out of business you loose the money

If you are still with the company and they go out of business the new companies pays you out

Wow I hope I get my credit when I switch 16/12 but would think there will be still over six weeks to wait for it after the switch

They don't take a credit card

Fingers crossed OTM are still about

cyka

Peter_Vince wrote: »

I, too, was disappointed when the dual payment structure was introduced - it was nice having a fixed rate all year. However, a) that wasn't going to happen with a variable tariff, b) it was only a few years ago I was paying quarterley for what I had actually used, so very variable and unpredictable, and c) it likely makes sense (especially for a smaller company) from a cash-flow perspective: they presumably have to pay for the energy used, as it is used. If our account balance runs negative in the high-usage winter months, they are going to need a large float to cover that until we pay up next summer.

So yes, I have also queried the new figures they have given me, as they seem to have over-estimated my usage (unless it is a REALLY cold winter), but if this helps the smaller, newer company keep going, and keep providing a cheaper rate than the competition - I'm for it.

How much did outfoxthemarket pay you to type this?

Steve456

isayoldchap wrote: »

Another enjoyable TV show yesterday evening with Martin

I'm sure he said if you leave an energy company and have a credit on account and that company goes out of business you loose the money

If you are still with the company and they go out of business the new companies pays you out

Wow I hope I get my credit when I switch 16/12 but would think there will be still over six weeks to wait for it after the switch

They don't take a credit card

Fingers crossed OTM are still about

"you loose the money" - assuming you meant "lose", presumably not paid by Direct Debit then as you would (if it were) be able to reclaim the payment from your bank.





I think you mean

RS2OOO

I've been stewing on this for a week now as have most of us. It feels almost like a dumbed down version of the various stages of grief.

As a re-cap, my DD was £82.03 and will now be 6x £143.55 and 6x £61.52 and I expect my
(already in credit) account to gain even more credit.

Carried out a comparison with the "big six" against my exact usage figures over the last 12 Months and EDF come out £735 per year more expensive and gave me a Monthly direct debit over 12 Months of £163.78 - £20 more than OTM's winter period uplift!

Cheapest supplier I can find is £230 per year more than I pay with OTM.

So whilst I agree the way OTM have gone about this exercise is absolutely wrong on every level, and I have submitted a complaint (15th Nov and no response yet), money talks so I will be sticking with them for now.

Even if they go bust and my credit balance is frozen for a period of time, as long as that credit balance is under £230 I'll still be better off than if I switch now.

[Deleted User]

Kieth Bastian makes a statement at the end.

Enjoy...:(
ATB
Dougie.

MSE News

1. MoneySavingExpert.com
2. News
3. 2018
4. November
5. Outfox the Market hikes direct debits by up to 40%

Outfox the Market hikes direct debits by up to 40%




Andrew Capstick, Energy Analyst
16 November 2018 | Updated 20 November 2018

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Small supplier Outfox the Market is changing how it takes monthly direct debit payments meaning some customers face paying 40% more during winter months - on top of hiking prices for the third time in five months.



From next month Outfox the Market customers will be charged more in winter than in summer, with their monthly direct debits adjusted accordingly. On average, a typical user could see 40% higher payments between October and March, and 40% lower payments between April and September than they currently pay.
This adds an extra £33 to the average household's monthly direct debit payment this winter - hitting customers' bills just before Christmas.
From next month the supplier is also increasing its variable prices by an average 7%, following similar announcements in June and September.
The price rise hits Outfox the Market's variable Zapp tariff – currently one of the cheapest energy deals for a typical dual-fuel household. The average bill will rise to £987/year, an increase of £64/yr on current prices and £180/yr compared to the start of 2018. It doesn't have exit fees on variable tariffs though, so if you're unhappy with the changes you can leave penalty-free at any time.
Our Big Switch 12 is now on - to see if you can save by switching do a full market comparison on our free Cheap Energy Club.



'I think this is unacceptable'

Customers have taken to social media to voice their concerns over the changes:

@MartinSLewis 'Outfox the Market' new summer/winter Direct Debit structure. Gone from £115.99 to £202.28 pm. Is this legal... I can't manage that jump 😔😔
— anna kemm (@kemmklan) November 15, 2018

It’s even worse than I thought. I only joined outfox this month on £72/mnth. Price increase put that up to £80. Their new billing system would charge £127 for 6 months starting with my next payment. Really not funny.
— Caroline (@carolinelufc) November 15, 2018

I accept variable tariffs change. I understand that. A price increase is no reason to not spread the yearly cost equally across 12 months. Outfox new monthly payments based on an average user on £78 mnth are Oct to Mar £109 and Apr to Sep £47. I think this is unacceptable.
— Caroline (@carolinelufc) November 15, 2018

How are direct debit payments changing?


Typically, when suppliers set monthly direct debits, they take your estimated annual usage, work out how much you'll pay on your tariff over the year, and divide this by 12 to get your monthly payment. So essentially you overpay in summer, when your usage is low, building up a credit surplus for when you start to use more energy in the cold winter months.
But from next month, Outfox the Market will instead charge 70% of your annual cost in six payments between October and March, and 30% between April and September.
For example, a typical user paying an average £987/year on the supplier's new rates would see the following change to their payments:

• Current monthly payment: £82.25 per month. This is calculated by dividing £987 by 12.
• New winter payment: £115.15 per month from October to March.
• New summer payment: £49.35 per month from April to September.

As the changes are coming in for most next month, Outfox the Market will work out your payments over the next 12 months – from December 2018 to December 2019 – so you'll pay the higher rate until March, the lower rate between April and September, and then the higher rate from October.
Some other smaller suppliers also charge higher monthly direct debits during winter, though usually only if you join them during this season - it is rare for suppliers to alter winter direct debits for existing customers who may have built up credit in the summer.
How are rates going up?

Around 50,000 existing Outfox the Market customers on the Zapp tariff will see prices rise by a typical £64/year from Thursday 13 December, while new customers signing up from today will also pay the new, higher rates.
The increase will also affect the supplier's Whamm tariff, which is essentially the same deal but for higher electricity users (8,000 kWh/year plus).
How to challenge the direct debit hike

You're free to challenge the direct debit increase. Suppliers are required by the regulator Ofgem to set "fair and reasonable" direct debits - see our Energy Direct Debits guide for more.
Outfox the Market says if customers believe their new direct debit amount is too high, they can contact it, and it will use a recent meter reading plus your estimated annual consumption to review it. It also says if a customer has enough credit to cover expected winter bills, they can get a refund and direct debit reduction.
If you still disagree with the amounts, you can lodge an official complaint - see How to complain about your energy provider for more.
Still unhappy? Most can ditch and switch penalty-free

Most Outfox the Market customers are on variable tariffs with no exit fees. So if you're unhappy with the changes, you can do a full comparison on Cheap Energy Club to see if you can find a better deal - and if so, switch away penalty-free.
However it's worth bearing in mind that even after the changes, your rate may be decent - despite the increases, the Zapp tariff is still among the top five cheapest deals based on typical use.
If you're one of the small number of Outfox the Market customers on a fixed deal, your tariff includes a £50 per fuel exit fee. So unfortunately you can't simply ditch and switch for free.
Remember though that if you're in the last 49 days of your fix, you can leave penalty-free anyway - under Ofgem rules exit fees can't be charged.
What does Outfox the Market say?

Keith Bastian, chief executive of Outfox the Market said: "Outfox the Market has made a real and positive difference to the energy market. We have helped thousands of customers save large amounts on their energy costs by providing some of the cheapest unit prices in the UK.
"To continue to do this we need to ensure fairness for all of our customers with our billing system. Introducing a winter uplift means customers payments simply match their consumption. Payments will drop significantly throughout the summer months to reflect lower usage and overall, we remain one of the best priced suppliers in the country.
"Introducing these changes promotes a philosophy of fairness, and avoids customers who are in credit funding other customers who are not paying enough for their energy.

[Deleted User]

you can email them, or talk to them via the website, explain your circumstances, and ask them what the basis of their calculations are...how many kwh of gas and electricity, annually and monthly, and ask them what membership fee they are charging you and how they came to that conclusion. If you don't agree with their figures are have plenty of credit you can ask them to refund it.
I hope this helps.
ATB
Dougie.

tighterthanaducks

Hi, ignoring the new seasonal split DD rates, I have noticed from this thread that some customers have had their estimated annual consumption for electricity increased by up to 20% at the same time.

Mine has gone up by a factor of 2.48 times or a 148% increase!!!

On 13/11/2018 I had an email saying that my EAC was 2546.3kWh which after the December price increase would be £403.65 pa. This EAC is about right for my usage.
Two days later I received an email from them stating that my new EAC would be £1000.95. How on earth can an increase of nearly 2.5 x be justified? I know I was planning to put up a few lights for Christmas but wasn't planning to be visible from space! They are planning to jack up my DD to £116.78 for less than £34 of electricity.

Does anyone have a bigger relative increase or has mine set a record?

Apart from using this as a licence to pillage my bank account, am I cynical in thinking they might be using this outrageous increase in EAC to artificially increase their "membership fee" which after 47 minutes on the phone listening to their propaganda while failing to get through to them, they kept reminding me that they make no profit from the electricity supply but from the membership fee???

Transfer away initiated...

Terry_Towelling

It really is beginning to look as if OTM have had to buy more wholesale energy that they imagined in order to meet the winter demand. That must have created significant financial pressure and they desperately need to cover their outlay as quickly as possible. What better way than to borrow interest-free from their customers - and hike the direct debit amounts temporarily to make sure they get as much of that cash in before the winter period ends!

I wonder also if they are planning more price hikes over winter, such that the lower summer payments (variable tariffs) will end up being not quite so low as they are leading us to believe.

If they go bust I believe a replacement supplier would be found and that supplier would be expected to honour any credit balances built up with OTM - I think that's what I read.

A quick check with Uswitch reveals them still to be the cheapest for me but the next cheapest is only about £25/year more expensive. Take care when using switching services because they only show deals with suppliers where they can manage the switch process. You have to click a different button to get all of the other suppliers to show up - there are plenty (all more expensive) but if you can't actually manage to pay OTM's hiked amounts for 6 months, and if they won't listen to you, switching may be the only way to get the monthly amounts averaged across the year.