Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

alittleowl

orangesnaps wrote: »

This from their terms and conditions:

& the reason that I am hesitant to cancel the direct debit but at the same time, where will we get the extra £40 that they are planning to take? It's Christmas & budget is incredibly tight & even if it weren't our budget has always been tight, so that means taking it out from the budget allocated for food.

"Any missed or late payments will incur a charge of £25 if payment is not made within 5 working days from the payment due date.

Direct debit — in this contract refers to standard fixed direct debit only.
7.1

The only available payment method is Direct Debit, which means paying for your supply each month by direct debit, where we set the amount of your direct debit according to your consumption.
By agreeing to be supplied by us, you agree to pay by standard direct debit.

7.2 Paying by standard direct debit means:

Paying by standard direct debit means:
You must keep your account in credit by paying for the supply in advance.
You agree to contact us before the direct debit is taken from your bank account if you believe your bill is incorrect.
We will carry any debit or credit balance forward to the next month’s bill.
You must give us an up-to-date meter reading at least every 30 days.
Your monthly direct debit amount will be fixed based on the amount of energy we think you’ll use each year of your contract divided by 12 but may be weighted according to winter/summer seasonality.
We can increase the standard direct debit amount if necessary to cover your consumption.
We aim to review your direct debit where necessary, to make sure you are paying enough to cover the energy you use, however it is your responsibility to ensure you are paying enough for the energy you use.
We may not reduce your standard direct debit payments unless we have up-to-date meter readings for your account.
Decreases of direct debit amounts or refunds of credit on account will depend on your forecasted usage not just your current statement balance. This is to ensure that your energy account is not negatively impacted in the future, especially upcoming winter periods."

It sounds like we're in a similar situation: it's a choice between having enough money to feed the kids at Christmas or paying these sharks their attempted daylight robbery. There's enough credit in my account to cover the payment they want to take in December and by January I will have switched to another supplier. I'm going for a one year fixed deal which yes is more overall but I never want to be caught out like this again.

lies

I am £ 152 in credit, my direct debit has gone up from £ 60 a month to £ 105 winter time and £ 45 summer time, i have switched today, no exit fee.

[Deleted User]

I have now been accepted by Green Energy as part of the MSE Switch. I had switched over in October. At the moment I am in credit with OFTM for £155. My monthly payment was £77.19, and I have made two payments by Direct Debit. The idea of the direct debit is that it is an agreement between the consumer and the company to make it less hassle for both, by agreeing regular payments at a regular price, with an estimate being given of annual consumption and other costs, and that this will be averaged out over the contract period, which is usually a year. Most of the larger energy companies are reasonable, and the credit/debit in monthly usage works to both parties advantage. The company or the customer is usually allowed to increase or decrease the monthly payment within certain limits. I had a look on the OFTM website at my account and though I have registered my meter reading and kept it up to date over this month and last, the company still hasn't created a bill, so I don't know the cost of what I have consumed.



Unfortunately, because I am so concerned about the viability of this company due to its arbitrarily doubling of my payment within a month of me joining them, and its arrogance and refusal to listen, it appears to show to my way of thinking that it is in a state close to financial meltdown, and obviously has a problem with working capital, and is trying to raise the ready cash from its customers. I have decided to stop my direct debit, because I don't want them taking out any more of my money and then it gets squandered in the costs of bankruptcy, and I don't get to see it again, or it could be more than a year before I get any excess payment returned. I understand from others on this forum that the company has attempted to renew the direct debit so that it can deduct the money from one's bank account, so I will be watching out for that. If the company wants to charge me extra for doing this, then fine, it can take me to court for it. I would look forward to that. And if it threatens my credit record, that can easily be fixed, but thank goodness due to careful management I don't need a loan.



When the company makes a properly accounted for bill available to me via their website or by email. I will be prepared to pay the balance by credit card, as in that way I am protected in case the company goes into administration and the money gets "lost" in their accounts somewhere. The reason I am doing this is because at least in that way I can prevent them from taking any more money away from me at the next DD payment day, which would be another £155 or thereabouts. I really don't like doing this, but I have to protect my own interests first, and am not there as some kind of charity or interest free loan agency. I will be paying £10 a month more with my new supplier, but at least I don't mind that because it is fixed and, I feel, more reliable...but we shall see.
ATB
Douglas Rankine

System

@Douglas R

You might like to read this link:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/ofgem-safety-net-protects-consumers-cash

All credit balances with energy suppliers are now fully protected.

brewerdave

Hengus wrote: »

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/ofgem-safety-net-protects-consumers-cash

All credit balances with energy suppliers are now fully protected.

Very true...but unfortunately some of these small set ups have rubbish systems, so the main issue is getting the administrators to identify/ pass on these credits (see all the problems with Future Energy) .I'm just grateful that my credits on recent supplier failure have been relatively small:(

markipad

brewerdave wrote: »

Very true...but unfortunately some of these small set ups have rubbish systems, so the main issue is getting the administrators to identify/ pass on these credits (see all the problems with Future Energy) .I'm just grateful that my credits on recent supplier failure have been relatively small:(

Yes indeed; case in point: First Utility were appointed SoLR for only 7000 customers from the failed Usio supplier about a month ago, and they are STILL negotiating with the administrators over the credit balances!

BedrockFred

Well I have switched to MSE Green Energy 2 year fixed plan a little more than OFTM but just don't like my DD doubling over winter and reducing by £10 in summer and I have nearly £200 in credit, I was expecting an increase in my DD payment due to the couple of price rises lately but the whole point of DD payment (to me at least) is a constant payment over the 12 months



Can't trust OFTM anymore they wont listen to my concerns but the rep did say paying the new way my credit balance would increase as it was more than enough for my usage but it was company policy and would'nt/ could'ntbe changed. Since been contacted asking for me to supply a photo of my meter readings and they will look at my DD, sorry but I supply meter readings every month that should be enough for them to check my usage

I have cancelled my DD as I have more than enough credit to pay for what I use before my switch goes through, just not expecting my credit refund to be sorted anytime soon



Are OFTM in trouble?? This new scheme looks set to lose a lot of customers and this wont help them.

[Deleted User]

Dear Hengus & Brewerdaave,


Tx for the link and advice on the protection given to direct debits and accounts given by OFGEM. I didn't know about the protection.

However, on the principle that a bird in the hand is better than one in the bush; it hasn't changed my resolve to stop my direct debit, because as brewerdave says, these small companies often don't have proper safety or support systems in place to protect the money which has been paid into customer accounts, and the way that OFTM appears to be handling its cash shortage looks like it hasn't budgeted properly, and is trying to overcome its lack of working capital by borrowing a variable, non-accountable, non repayable interest free loan from its customers, rather than taking out expensive loans in the market place, presumably all to prove that it is better and more cunning than anyone else at its attempt to OUTFOX THE MARKET. I would much prefer not to be their rabbit.



With that in mind, I will be informing them by email tomorrow, what my feelings are about the problem and the differences of opinion and approach which they and I have and suggesting to them that I will be stopping my direct debit due to a lack of trust, as well as not being able to afford the doubling of my DD to £155.



As I am already in credit to £155 with them, but don't know exactly because they haven't yet provided me with a bill, though I have sent them readings according to our contract, I do realise that they may be a bit busy at the moment, and, also, being a senior citizen, on a low fixed state pension, I cannot afford to pay double the amount to which I first agreed. They have also requested me, if I wish to appeal about the amount of the DD that I should send them photos by email, of my meters readings. Unfortunately, though, my electricity meter is very high up on the wall,and difficult to access, and I would need to take both of my hands off of the stepladder to get access with a camera. As I am 73 and a bit unsteady on my feet, I am wondering if they carry public indemnity insurance in case I fall of the ladder and injure myself. After all, they have made it a condition of our contract that I must supply them by this method, and they are therefore liable for any foreseable accidents which may occur under this instruction.



It is the small things such as that, from which many of their customers may suffer, which they haven't take into account, when they decided almost in a flash of lightning hitting the power grid, that they haven't thought out, when doubling the winter bills for their customers, as well as the financial limitations which their customers may have. This lack of forethought and foresight, suggests extreme desperation in my view, coupled with their arrogant replies and not taking into consideration the considerable flack which is being generated in the social media. Combine all of this activity, with the huge number of complaints, both to them and to the various bodies which represent and control the energy industry, and to the likes of television, radio and news media and such like, and one can see that they are going to be having a very hard working Christmas, with lots of staff taken on and lots of overtime as an overwhelming switching of customers to other, nicer, and safer and secure, if more pricey companies, who can offer more security and less worry about how to manage their monthly finances.


What they have done is one way of advancing their learning curve very quickly, but even a whiz kid of an accountant is going to find it difficult to cost, all that extra staff and working time wasted on losing customers rather than keeping them happy and making a healthy profit instead of an unhealthy loss at the same time.
With kind regards...and more power to your elbow...
ATB
Douglas Rankine

joe134

with lots of staff taken on and lots of overtime as an overwhelming switching of customers to other, nicer, and safer and secure, if more pricey companies, who can offer more security and less worry about how to manage their monthly finances.

All companies may offer “ nicer,safer, and security, but, none can / will guarantee it ?

There will be more smaller companies failing, it is just pot luck finding one that doesn’t

Bovrl21

You and me both matey. I'm flabbergasted that they want to increase my current direct debit by 91%.!! I've told them I cannot afford one fifth of my monthly outgoings being paid to them and that this set up is RIDICULOUS. They are basically profiteering so I have no option to transfer. Fotunately, I'm not tied in to a fixed tariff but if I were I'd still switch!! Angry or what!