Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

System

alittleowl wrote: »

In any case, I disagree with their calculations of my EAC.

The Estimated Annual Consumption for electricity is based on your actual (validated) usage (adjusted for seasonal weather variations) by the DATA COLLECTORS - not individual suppliers. On transfer, the new supplier is provided with 2 years worth of data. In the past, suppliers that have miscalculated estimated annual usage have been ‘fined’ by Ofgem.

This is not an exact science as I have found out. In July, I moved into a new build well insulated 4 bed property. My ‘old’ home was a 20 year old 5 bed property with an integral garage. We consumed about 10000kWhs of gas a year. I set my new home usage projection at the same amount. A month ago, my supplier raised my projected annual usage to 15500 kWhs/year based on 2 months of hot water heating which averaged 6 kWhs/day. They tried to argue that the change was based on historical data from the Data Collectors. Fortunately, my supplier was amenable to a modest DD change.

Contact OFTM and ask them for the EAC provided to them by their Data Collector on switch. You then have the basis for a formal complaint.

smipsy

all this smells of yet another company going bust!

on another note, why in the world can't we have an option of just paying what we use, instead of all these "paying extra for winter" crap. Most people always pay on time, so I want to pay what I spent. If it's only 30 in summer and 100 in winter, I don't care, I'll pay it, just leave me alone with all this hassle

daveyjp

smipsy wrote: »

all this smells of yet another company going bust!

on another note, why in the world can't we have an option of just paying what we use, instead of all these "paying extra for winter" crap. Most people always pay on time, so I want to pay what I spent. If it's only 30 in summer and 100 in winter, I don't care, I'll pay it, just leave me alone with all this hassle

You can have that option, I do. Meter reading sent once a month, bill a week later, paid two weeks after that.

I may pay slightly more, but the opportunity cost of me being able to pay when I want is worth it. I make some back by paying with a cashback credit card.

markipad

alittleowl wrote: »

My bank told me that if the direct debit is cancelled then they can't put the refund into your bank account will send the refund as a cheque after the account is closed. Not ideal but that money is already gone from my bank account, I'll get it eventually even if they go bust, and it's better than them grabbing money I don't have just before Christmas.

Good luck with that one! I tried that with Octopus when they owed me a refund, and they said ....."that option is not available, you have to have a Direct Debit in force, so that we can credit you." Nonsense, I agree, but that's what happened to me!

orangesnaps

daveyjp wrote: »

You can have that option, I do. Meter reading sent once a month, bill a week later, paid two weeks after that.

I may pay slightly more, but the opportunity cost of me being able to pay when I want is worth it. I make some back by paying with a cashback credit card.

There is no option for OTM customers to pay like that from what I can search on their website, they want paying by Direct Debit and with a month's advance. Ours were two months in advance.
I have just got an email about a formal change in the direct debit amount. They will not budge. Even though I sent a complaint and asking for a refund of the credit that's in our account which is almost £400.
I can understand if my account was low in credit and they increase the DD charge but having almost £400 in credit and still increasing the DD amount is madness.
They do not care about their customers. I will switch elsewhere even if the rates will be a bit higher rather than be taken for a ride by this crooked company.

alittleowl

markipad wrote: »

Good luck with that one! I tried that with Octopus when they owed me a refund, and they said ....."that option is not available, you have to have a Direct Debit in force, so that we can credit you." Nonsense, I agree, but that's what happened to me!

I really had no choice: if they tried to take the new DD amount next month it would bounce because I have a basic bank account with no option for an overdraft and I have no realistic or legal way of finding an extra £70 in the next three weeks. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

orangesnaps

This from their terms and conditions:

& the reason that I am hesitant to cancel the direct debit but at the same time, where will we get the extra £40 that they are planning to take? It's Christmas & budget is incredibly tight & even if it weren't our budget has always been tight, so that means taking it out from the budget allocated for food.

"Any missed or late payments will incur a charge of £25 if payment is not made within 5 working days from the payment due date.

Direct debit — in this contract refers to standard fixed direct debit only.
7.1

The only available payment method is Direct Debit, which means paying for your supply each month by direct debit, where we set the amount of your direct debit according to your consumption.
By agreeing to be supplied by us, you agree to pay by standard direct debit.

7.2 Paying by standard direct debit means:

Paying by standard direct debit means:
You must keep your account in credit by paying for the supply in advance.
You agree to contact us before the direct debit is taken from your bank account if you believe your bill is incorrect.
We will carry any debit or credit balance forward to the next month’s bill.
You must give us an up-to-date meter reading at least every 30 days.
Your monthly direct debit amount will be fixed based on the amount of energy we think you’ll use each year of your contract divided by 12 but may be weighted according to winter/summer seasonality.
We can increase the standard direct debit amount if necessary to cover your consumption.
We aim to review your direct debit where necessary, to make sure you are paying enough to cover the energy you use, however it is your responsibility to ensure you are paying enough for the energy you use.
We may not reduce your standard direct debit payments unless we have up-to-date meter readings for your account.
Decreases of direct debit amounts or refunds of credit on account will depend on your forecasted usage not just your current statement balance. This is to ensure that your energy account is not negatively impacted in the future, especially upcoming winter periods."

smipsy

orangesnaps wrote: »

I can understand if my account was low in credit and they increase the DD charge but having almost £400 in credit and still increasing the DD amount is madness.

no, it's not madness. it's desperation. I give them a maximum of 30 days before they go bust

orangesnaps

This is their complaints procedure:

"We ’re Here to Help
If you feel like we have let you down in any way, or have not met the high standards of service we pride ourselves on, we want you to let us know. We recognise that things can occasionally go wrong, so our commitment to you is that we will always attempt to put things right.
Call
Give us a call on 0800 103 2702 Our Customer Services team are available
Monday to Thursday between 8:30am and 7:00pm,
Friday between 8:30am and 5:00pm, and
Saturday between 9:00am and 2:00pm.
They’re a helpful and friendly bunch.
Email
Email us at complaints@foxglove.energy make sure you include your full customer details, and Outfox the Market account number so we know who you are.
Our Aim
At Outfox the Market we feel it is important to get things right the first time around and we understand that long escalation time frames can be frustrating for customers this is why our customer service team will always try to resolve any dissatisfactions at your first point of contact and to put things right straight away. If it is a more complex or complicated issue, sometimes it may take a little longer to get the outcome you require and this will be escalated to our Customer resolution team who will be in contact within 2 working days of receiving a complaint. In these circumstances, we will stay in regular contact with you, so you know what actions we are taking and when we hope to have your concerns resolved. If you are still dissatisfied it’s easy to get free independent advice so that you “know your rights” as an energy consumer. You might want to get a better deal, find out how to make a complaint, get advice about the quality of your electricity or gas supply, or ask for help if you’re struggling to pay your bills. The document produced by Citizens Advice service provides more information about where energy consumers can get free independent information and advice about their energy supply and ways to reduce their bills."

I will send them another email complaining about the changes that they have done & chasing them up to get them to refund us some of the credit that they have in our account. That's the only way we can cough up the extra £40 they are wanting until we switch to a different company. I'm planning to do it by end of December as we can't afford our finances to be messed up more than OTM is planning.
Then send a complaint to BBC Watchdog and Ofgem to inform there of this company.
Fischer Energy, Outfox the market & Foxglove are all owned by the same people so beware of them.

DonalK

So I tried Live Chat to see what I could find out ... and got the same line as most others but please note the comment about EAC data .... I am with them since May and I didn't pull any tricks with my usage figures ...

Advisor
As you might know that the eac that the system calculated it on, was the eac that we have received from the third party ( based on your 2 previous years). But we can revise it of you

Me
I have been with you since May so my EAC was from me and it still matches exactly what I told you it would. And my balance is built up perfectly to meet my winter needs - even if you were to increase your cost per unit (not DD) by as much as 50%.

Advisor
I do understand this sir. We are trying to avoid people having debts towards us as they go into areas in the winter time. We did had to implement this for everyone.
There are people who doesn't like the idea however majority of customers are happy as they will not over pay and they rather to have money in their banks not Outfox account

My week -
13th - £40.45 DD ... or £485.40 EAC
14th - £56.63 DD ... to save me from Winter Shock by Out For The Money
15th - £99.10 / 42.47 ... or £849 EAC but when I divide this by 12 I get £70.78 not the £56 they show. Who did this maths?

It seems The Count from Sesame Street lives on and he's got mates with non-GDPR compliant data on my usage.

But that's fine because according to my advisor, I am the exception and ... the majority of OFTM customers are happy that even tough they are paying 25% of their annual spend per month, that they are getting a cheap deal and their money is in two places at once ... they just need their marketing team to make that sound a little snappier though. :money: