Renovating in France - NEED BUDGET HELP!

Dsushee

Hi All

I knew you guys would be the best people to help me with my question... I am currently in the process of buying a house in France which is in need of renovation. I want to be prepared so I am looking to find a budget that I can use and I was hoping someone out there might have already put one together????

Also if anyone has any suggestions for renovating in region 58 (burgundy) send them this way...;)

thanks

D

letitcomedown

Generally professional renovation costs are in the order of 500-1000 EUR per square meter, but it can be a lot less if you do it yourself.

1) Try the forums on https://www.totalfrance.com or https://www.livingfrance.com
2) Make sure you know the rough square meterage of each of the bits of work you want done, as that tends to set the price for the job.
3) Roofs are the real budget killers

HTH!

inmypocketnottheirs

My advice would be to learn French (assuming at the moment you are a non speaker) and to use local tradesmen. I would advise against using any English cowboy builders who may live nearby, who generally overcharge because of the language barrier and often are not capable of doing the work required,

poppyoscar_3

bonjour!

we have done a renovation project in france - 24 though, not 58.

we did a lot of the work ourselves, only had artisans to do the stuff we couldn't - the roof (because it was very high - 3 storey house), the plumbing (local french plumber) and electrics (english, but french registered electrician.)

obviously as soon as you use artisans it gets more expensive, but bear in mind (and i think this is still the case) that if you use artisans, and your house is more than 2 yrs old, and it is a renovation project, you only pay 5.5% VAT on materials and labour, un place of 19.6%. I think that this is still the case, but worth checking (ask any local artisan about TVA) as it makes a big difference!

as far as overall budget is concerned, i think it's probably usually about double the figure you come up with!

also, it can be very slow getting quotes and then getting artisans on site to do the work - plan carefully, and be prepared to wait. we xanted on particular builder to do the roof, local and good reputation, but had to wiat two years!:eek: however, i would always use the people you see the locals using, or those who come reccommended from others. too many people fall foul of cowboys!

am no longer in france as husband and i divorced, but the renovation carries on in my absence.:rolleyes:

bon courage!

p-o

Generali

The French have a system whereby builders are registered with the Chambre de Metier. Get the builder's reference number and check it out with the CdeM before they start.

Also, you should get a detailed estimate from the builder before you start (can't remember the name of it but it's an official way to present the estimate - the French love all that). Oh and remember if you pay cash to the builder to avoid TVA (VAT) and taxes then you have no comeback in law - the courts will not be interested at all.

Dsushee

inmypocketnottheirs wrote: »

My advice would be to learn French (assuming at the moment you are a non speaker) and to use local tradesmen. I would advise against using any English cowboy builders who may live nearby, who generally overcharge because of the language barrier and often are not capable of doing the work required,

Luckily for me I do speak French and we also have some friends out there who found the house for us in the first place! But its a good point to note about the english builders. We are planning on doing most of the work ourselves and we made sure that all the walls (2ft thick) and the roofs were in a good state with no work really needed. Its the inside that needs all the work...

letitcomedown

The official name of an estimate is "devis". Actually it's more than an estimate, when you sign and return a copy it is a binding agreement to have the work done. For that reason, it is worth making sure the devis has an agreed time limit or work start date.

I sort of agree with the comments about English tradesman - but I think the nationality isn't too important. Using properly registered local people gets you a lot of bonus points - regardless of where they come from - but there are definitely a lot more English coyboys than French. Generali's comments are good too - and check that the plumber is actually registered as a plumber or their insurance won't be valid!

For prices : there are some books called "prix pour batir" available on amazon.fr which give prices for building work (per sq meter) etc. For materials: https://www.lapeyre.fr is great for kitchens, bathrooms, windows, doors etc, good prices and great quality. https://www.pointp.fr is good for bulk builders materials. https://www.castorama.fr is good as a general DIY shop.

Dsushee

poppyoscar wrote: »

obviously as soon as you use artisans it gets more expensive, but bear in mind (and i think this is still the case) that if you use artisans, and your house is more than 2 yrs old, and it is a renovation project, you only pay 5.5% VAT on materials and labour, un place of 19.6%. I think that this is still the case, but worth checking (ask any local artisan about TVA) as it makes a big difference!


p-o

thank you for your post. Very helpful. So does that men that if you do the work yourself then you have to pay the higher rate of tax?
and I'm trying to find a local architect but am having issues since I'm getting conflicting stories about what I need one for. We just want someone to come and make a plan of the house and tell us what we can do with it..!

Dsushee

letitcomedown wrote: »

The official name of an estimate is "devis". Actually it's more than an estimate, when you sign and return a copy it is a binding agreement to have the work done. For that reason, it is worth making sure the devis has an agreed time limit or work start date.

I sort of agree with the comments about English tradesman - but I think the nationality isn't too important. Using properly registered local people gets you a lot of bonus points - regardless of where they come from - but there are definitely a lot more English coyboys than French. Generali's comments are good too - and check that the plumber is actually registered as a plumber or their insurance won't be valid!

For prices : there are some books called "prix pour batir" available on amazon.fr which give prices for building work (per sq meter) etc. For materials: www.lapeyre.fr is great for kitchens, bathrooms, windows, doors etc, good prices and great quality. www.pointp.fr is good for bulk builders materials. www.castorama.fr is good as a general DIY shop.

that's great thanks! Its difficult knowing what the shops are for these things. Again i've heard that if you go to the local tradesmen that you'll find things cheaper - might that be true?

letitcomedown

>So does that men that if you do the work yourself then you have to pay >the higher rate of tax?
Yes

>and I'm trying to find a local architect but am having issues since I'm >getting conflicting stories about what I need one for. We just want >someone to come and make a plan of the house and tell us what we can
>do with it..!
You *need* an architect if you need planning permission, and the square meterage of the house will excede 170m2. Generally planning permission is only needed if exterior changes are made, particularly the case when new doors/window openings are made or existing ones widened.

Most architects who deal with renovation work are parasites (new builds are so much easier for the good architectess), so only employ one if you absolutely need one - it's the quickest single way to lose money for no gain. Make sure the fee is fixed, don't employ them in advance for anything other than planning permission (yet). And make sure they're recommended.

>Again i've heard that if you go to the local tradesmen that you'll find things >cheaper - might that be true?
Yes, because of the reduced VAT they pay.