Royal Mail £8 Internal Post Handling Fee scam?

shaun_from_Africa

It doesn't necessarily involve more inspections either, parcels could still be chosen at the same rate for inspection, it's only when they're selected that it gets handed off to the chosen cleanrance method (postal service or importer direct payment)

So if the same number of packages get chosen for inspection, the number of £8 handling fees will be the same.
However, who is going to pay for compiling the databases showing who has opted to do the processing themselves?,
who is going to pay for the computer hardware and software for running this system,
and who is going to pay for continually maintaining and and updating the hardware and ensuring that the names on the database are kept up to date?

RM are not going to do this for free, so they will either have to increase their postal charges to cover this or make a charge for every item that they randomly select.

Icm76

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

who is going...
...up to date?

If a package arrives with "Goods to be Customs cleared by the importer" and no fee is paid to the postal service, how are costs covered? what will happen if most start people start asking for "Goods to be Customs cleared by the importer" on their parcel?

I'm not suggesting we pay nothing for our customs processing fees. My thinking is that legitimate customs processing costs can be covered on the HMRC and tax payer side, I believe the necessary data already exists and handling it should not cost an amount that hurts the tax payer, setting up an online payment portal will cost something but I believe it would be a tiny drop in the ocean compared amount tax payers already have to pay RM and Parcelforce.

custardy

Icm76 wrote: »

If a package arrives with "Goods to be Customs cleared by the importer" and no fee is paid to the postal service, how are costs covered? what will happen if most start people start asking for "Goods to be Customs cleared by the importer" on their parcel?

I'm not suggesting we pay nothing for our customs processing fees. My thinking is that legitimate customs processing costs can be covered on the HMRC and tax payer side, I believe the necessary data already exists and handling it should not cost an amount that hurts the tax payer, setting up an online payment portal will cost something but I believe it would be a tiny drop in the ocean compared amount tax payers already have to pay RM and Parcelforce.

the costs are covered by handing the item to HMRC
job done
So you believe HMRC will charge less and be more efficient?
So once more.
While HMRC are doing this work,providing online portals etc
where is the package?

shaun_from_Africa

Icm76 wrote: »

If a package arrives with "Goods to be Customs cleared by the importer" and no fee is paid to the postal service, how are costs covered? what will happen if most start people start asking for "Goods to be Customs cleared by the importer" on their parcel?

What costs?
RM pull a package from a mailbag, discover that it has "Goods to be customs cleared by importer", then RM take over from there.
Once duty has been paid, RM will deliver the item as normal.

You still haven't answered the question about who will pay for the setting up and running of the database orientated system where people can opt to clear the goods themselves.
Suggesting changes to the current system is easy.
Explaining how the new system would be financed is not quite so easy.

setting up an online payment portal will cost something but I believe it would be a tiny drop in the ocean compared amount tax payers already have to pay RM and Parcelforce.

It will not be an online payment portal.
If RM are not collecting the relevant import duties then why woud payment need to be sent to them?
It is HMCE that will be collecting the money.

I doubt very much if setting up any running any computer system that could include many millions of names and addresses in it, (details of everyone who has chosen to do the clearance themselves) information that will need constant updating and will need to be securely processed will be cheap, and as RM are no longer financed by the UK taxpayer, I ask again, who will pay for it?

paddyrg

All the couriers but one charge a flat fee. RM's fee is about half what most of the other couriers charge.

The exception is DHL and I encourage you to use them exclusively in the future. They charge a percentage fee based on the taxes payable. On the other hand, their delivery fee is massively higher than using the postal system so it will cost £20+ more overall, but at least you're not paying £8 for it.

CiderImbiber

Regarding eBay specifically, when an item is sold (by an international seller), the buyer pays for the goods and the shipping costs. That then constitutes a deal between buyer and seller - in other words, the seller has agreed to get the item to the buyer for the agreed total.
Why do the hardcore RM faction find it so hard to understand the buyers' POV here?
Don't get me wrong, I support RM, and oppose its privatisation (and that of British Gas, BT, the water companies, railways etc. for that matter). You can go on about paperwork, handling charges etc etc. until you're blue in the face (in fact, you already have), but that does not change the facts: buyer pays for item + postage, item arrives and buyer is required to pay extra to collect it.
(Btw a previous poster made a good point - the selection of items deemed liable for duty should not be arbitrary, as seems to be the case now. There ought to be a system which checks all objects coming through customs. (Also, some sympathy for HMRC for having had their budget slashed, instead of increased like it should have been (to better enable them to pursue tax-dodging corporations (of which there are very many)))).

George_Michael

CiderImbiber wrote: »

Why do the hardcore RM faction find it so hard to understand the buyers' POV here?

By "hardcore RM faction", I assume that you mean people who understand that import duties are the responsibility of the importer (buyer) in all countries in the world irrespective of whether the goods were purchased from an eBay seller, Amazon or any other seller.

Nilrem

George_Michael wrote: »

By "hardcore RM faction", I assume that you mean people who understand that import duties are the responsibility of the importer (buyer) in all countries in the world irrespective of whether the goods were purchased from an eBay seller, Amazon or any other seller.

Yup.

The seller has no idea what the customs are in every country in the world, hence almost any website that sells outside it's own countries borders will have a clause that says "buyers are responsible for any customs fees" or similar.

What some people don't seem to understand is that customs are often very complex, so it would be nearly impossible for small companies to offer pre clearance on customs because to do so they would potentially need to know exactly how the item is classified in dozens of countries.
IIRC Amazon are one of the few companies to offer pre payment of customs for people buying from the US site if you are using courier postage (as the couriers can, unlike RM know in advance what is in the package), and they can do it mainly because they are so huge and often have offices in the countries in question (thus need to know the local tax laws anyway), and are willing to take the odd hit on if they guess wrong on how much you need to pay (they'll pay additional taxes if it turns out their estimate is under), and it's basically paid through their corporate account which makes it cheaper than paying on an personal one (in the same way it's usually cheaper to post something if you've got an account with the courier and are sending thousands of items a week, than if you send the odd item once a year).

The funny thing is, that I am usually one of the "buyers", and I get a little miffed about the charges, but understand why there are there, why the retailer doesn't normally pay them, and how complex it can be to sort out import duties.

CiderImbiber

Ok, I get it about customs, but you must admit the items that get chosen for tax seem to be picked randomly. I've bought several items from the US and only one incurred import duty/handling charge even though they all looked the same.
(Also, while the import duty might be understandable, the £8 handling fee is still a bit much).

WTFH

CiderImbiber wrote: »

Ok, I get it about customs, but you must admit the items that get chosen for tax seem to be picked randomly.

Exactly.
They can't check every single item that comes into the country, so it is a random selection. That's why sometimes you have to pay duty, and sometimes you don't, and why sometimes the delivery company has to go through a load of paperwork and processing (which takes time and costs money), and sometimes they don't.

If you bought something that cost £10,000 and you had to pay an £8 fee for the processing of the duty paperwork, then you'd probably not complain. The time it takes to do the process does not vary depending on the value of the goods, but the level of complaining certainly does!