CE Ltd PCN Appeals

Coupon-mad

sickofpcn wrote: »

Coupon-Mad

I have added dates now is that all okay now or is there anything else needs amending?

How can these dates be right?

Alleged incident happened on 28/09/2018 PCN issue date 03/10/2018 and I did not receive NTK till 2nd November 2018

It can't have taken a month to reach you?

sickofpcn

Well it was around that time i am sure if not then it has got be around last week of October i remember i took a photo of the PCN and send it to a friend of mine that photo was sent from my phone on 2nd of November

sickofpcn

I think i am not getting no where with this template help so i would just go ahead and submit appeal and see what happens.

sickofpcn

Hi All,

I submitted my POPLA appeal few weeks back now i have received following email

Your parking charge appeal against Civil Enforcement.

Civil Enforcement has now uploaded its evidence via our portal. This is now available for you to view by clicking here.

You have seven days from the date of this correspondence to provide comments on the evidence uploaded by Civil Enforcement.

Please note that these comments must relate to the grounds of appeal you submitted when first lodging your appeal with POPLA, we do not accept new grounds of appeal at this stage.

Any comments received after the period of seven days has ended will not be considered and we will progress your appeal for assessment.

If you have any issues with the evidence uploaded by Civil Enforcement such as being unable to view it online, please contact POPLA immediately so that we can look to rectify this as soon as possible.



After logging in popla website there 3 pdf documents attached

1 - Beavis Supreme Court Judgment (Summary)
2 - View Document 833 Date and Time stamped
3 - View Document 5081722833 View Document

these are lengthy documents i am just wondering if i need to copy paste it here for help or does any one know what it is all about.

Le_Kirk

The Beavis case is available in the public domain (but seasoned posters on here will know it. The other documents are presumably the evidence submitted by the CE. What you need to do is go through the evidence and refute each point (where it differs from your version or the truth) and remember you only have 2,000 CHARACTERS to do this.


You could post sections of the evidence with your rebuttal for critique.

sickofpcn

RESPONSE TO POPLA APPEAL
1. There are many clear and visible signs displayed in the car park advising drivers of the
terms and conditions applicable when parking in the car park. Drivers are permitted to
park in the car park in accordance with the terms and conditions displayed on the
signage. These signs constitute an offer by us to enter into a contract with the drivers.
2. Our Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras recorded the Appellant’s
vehicle, registration number in the car park during the date and time shown on the front
summary sheet of this appeal.
3. There is more than adequate signage in the car park, as can be seen from the attached
site plan. Furthermore, the car park has sufficient lighting and warnings for the
Appellant to have acknowledged the signs, and which the Appellant accepted by their
actions.
4. We refer you to the Court of Appeal authority of Vine v Waltham Forest London
Borough Council [2000] 4 All ER 169 which states:
“the presence of notices which are posted where they are bound to be seen,
for example at the entrance to a private car park, which are of a type which the
car driver would be bound to have read, will lead to a finding that the car driver
had knowledge of and appreciated the warning”.
5. The nature of the relationship between the Appellant and our company is contractual.
The car park is private land and consequently drivers require permission before
parking on the land. The Company granted permission by way of making an offer in
the signs displayed in the car parks and the Appellant accepted that offer and the terms
set out on the signs by their conduct in parking on the land.
6. As previously stated, there was ample signage throughout the site, such that the
Appellant had an opportunity to read them, including signage at the entrance to the car
park.
7. The British Parking Association advises all motorists:
“Regardless of whether they park in private car parks, Council car parks
or on-street, motorists should always park properly and always check any
signage displayed to make sure they know and understand the rules that
apply. This is especially so if they are visiting for the first time - in order
to acquaint themselves with the prevailing Terms & Conditions for
parking.”
Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3PF
Tel: 0115 822 5020
Registered Office as above. Company Registered in England. Company Registration Number 05645677
Page
3
8. When parking on private land a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by
the conditions of parking, in return for permission to park. Therefore, the onus was on
the Appellant to ensure that they could abide by any clearly displayed conditions.
Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 - Our Charges
9. The charge sought is a contractual term, which is within the recommended British
Parking Association (BPA) guidelines, and is compliant the BPA code.
10. The Supreme Court, in their judgment of the recent Parking Eye v Beavis appeal,
stated that:
“…the charge does not contravene the penalty rule, or the Unfair
Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.”
A summary of the Supreme Court’s judgment in the case of Parking Eye v Beavis has been
included in the Operator’s evidence pack, but can also be accessed using the following link:
https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-press-summary.pdf
11. We submit that the charge does not cause a significant imbalance of the parties’
rights and obligations arising under the Contract. Furthermore, Lord Neuberger and
Lord Sumption asserted the following in the above Supreme Court judgment:
“Any imbalance in the parties’ rights did not arise ‘contrary to the requirements
of good faith’, because ParkingEye and the owners had a legitimate interest
in inducing Mr Beavis not to overstay in order to efficiently manage the car
park for the benefit of the generality of users of the retail outlets.”
It would therefore be erroneous to conclude that the sum claimed must be a genuine preestimation of loss.
Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3PF
Tel: 0115 822 5020
Registered Office as above. Company Registered in England. Company Registration Number 05645677
Page
4
Additional Notes
12. The Notice was issued as the Driver failed to obtain an electronic permit for their
vehicle, registration *** ****. Electronic permits may be obtained by entering your
vehicle registration on the touchscreen located inside the hotel facilities. This Parking
Charge Notice was issued under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
As Mr. XXX XXXXXXX has failed to provide us with the driver’s details within 28 days,
we are holding him liable as Registered Keeper. Please find enclosed a copy of his
original appeal.
13. We refer you to the attached photographic evidence of the vehicle, captured by our
Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras, entering the car park at 00:02 and
departing at 01:13 (total duration of 1 hour and 11 minutes).
14. Signage in the car park clearly states "PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY – ALL VISITORS
MUST REGISTERED FOR A PERMIT ON A TOUCH SCREEN AT RECEPTION - If you
park without obtaining a permit, you agree to pay £100."
Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3PF
Tel: 0115 822 5020
Registered Office as above. Company Registered in England. Company Registration Number 05645677
Page
5
15. The Driver failed to register their vehicle, registration *** ***, as can be seen from
the attached report which shows the vehicles that were registered on the day in question.
The report also demonstrates that other drivers were complying with the terms and
conditions, and that the touchscreens were in good working order on the date of violation.
16. Whilst we appreciate the Appellant’s submissions, we are unable to take into account
mitigating circumstances; the terms and conditions of parking were clear. Furthermore, the
Appellant failed to utilise the operator’s helpline phone number (displayed at the bottom of
signage) to report the occurrence, or to request advice on what further action could be
taken.
17. We note the Appellant’s comments that the text was too small, however, motorists
must be expected to have sufficiently good sight to read signs brought to their attention.
Furthermore, it is clear that the Appellant was aware that there was signage on site.
18. There are many clear and visible sings in the car park, as evidenced by the attached
image plan. It should be noted that drivers have an obligation to check for signs when
parking on private land - the signs do not need to be placed directly in the position
where they parked, they simply must be placed throughout the site so that drivers
are given the chance to read them (BPA Code of Practice, 18.3).

PCN:XXXXXXX
Vehicle Registration: XXX XXXX
Date of Violation:28/09/2018
Site:HOLIDAY INN EXPRESS, CUCKOO ROAD, HEARTLANDS PARKWAY, NECHELLS, BIRMINGHAM, B7 5SB
Duration of Stay:01:11


REPORT OF REGISTERED VEHICLES AT HOLIDAY INN EXPRESS, CUCKOO ROAD, HEARTLANDS PARKWAY, NECHELLS, BIRMINGHAM, B7 5SB
datetime site registration addedfrom
27/09/2018 01:46:00 833 FA*** Payment Machine
27/09/2018 05:24:00 833 P1*** Payment Machine
27/09/2018 07:10:00 833 DU***VK Payment Machine
27/09/2018 07:11:00 833 DU***VK Payment Machine
27/09/2018 07:21:00 833 FN***VO Payment Machine
27/09/2018 07:22:00 833 DS***HZ Payment Machine
27/09/2018 08:25:00 833 PN***WV Payment Machine
27/09/2018 08:34:00 833 HF***RK Payment Machine
27/09/2018 08:34:00 833 J5***UX Payment Machine
27/09/2018 08:35:00 833 J5***UX Payment Machine
27/09/2018 08:41:00 833 YJ***NY Payment Machine
27/09/2018 08:54:00 833 WF***DR Payment Machine
27/09/2018 09:22:00 833 YR***LM Payment Machine
27/09/2018 09:23:00 833 MX***MU Payment Machine
27/09/2018 09:24:00 833 WT***SL Payment Machine
27/09/2018 09:26:00 833 BN***LO Payment Machine
27/09/2018 09:27:00 833 BN***LO Payment Machine
27/09/2018 09:31:00 833 DE***NG Payment Machine
27/09/2018 09:51:00 833 BT***XD Payment Machine
27/09/2018 09:51:00 833 BT***ZD Payment Machine
27/09/2018 09:57:00 833 KW***BA Payment Machine
27/09/2018 10:01:00 833 CA***HG Payment Machine
27/09/2018 10:45:00 833 SB***HY Payment Machine
27/09/2018 11:34:00 833 LL***FJ Payment Machine
27/09/2018 11:57:00 833 GN***UL Payment Machine
27/09/2018 11:58:00 833 GN***UL Payment Machine
27/09/2018 13:41:00 833 CN***SF Payment Machine
27/09/2018 14:04:00 833 HV***WU Payment Machine
27/09/2018 14:25:00 833 DU***TY Payment Machine
27/09/2018 15:13:00 833 AK***ZU Payment Machine
27/09/2018 15:14:00 833 RF***JE Payment Machine
27/09/2018 15:15:00 833 DK***ZX Payment Machine
27/09/2018 16:41:00 833 WU***KY Payment Machine
27/09/2018 16:45:00 833 OE***ZY Payment Machine
27/09/2018 17:16:00 833 BK***DX Payment Machine
27/09/2018 17:25:00 833 OY***OH Payment Machine
27/09/2018 17:29:00 833 WV***GH Payment Machine
27/09/2018 17:40:00 833 X7***OG Payment Machine
27/09/2018 17:44:00 833 HG***HD Payment Machine
27/09/2018 17:46:00 833 GM***EF Payment Machine
27/09/2018 17:55:00 833 GU***YP Payment Machine

Fruitcake

You need to redact the PCN number and VRN from your post.

I`m confused by the dates of the VRN records. None of them are for the date of the alleged event. They have shown no evidence that the vehicle was not present on the date of the alleged event (28th of September) so it must be assumed it was registered but they have deliberately chosen to omit the details.

What happened when you complained to the hotel manager?

sickofpcn

I didn't complaint to Hotel Manager

sickofpcn

Yes the date and time they have provided does not match the date and time on PCN
I wish i could attach all the proofs they have provided in the car park plan they have attached photos which are obviously taken on a very bright sunny day compare they pictures of my car 12 at midnight where you can hardly see anything in the car park.

KeithP

sickofpcn wrote: »

I wish i could attach all the proofs they have provided...

And why can't you do that?

Upload the images to your favourite webhosting site and post the links here.