Deposit dispute and question re allowable deductions

Sausage11

Hello,

I am heading towards a dispute with my landlord about our deposit.

I've read GM's sticky but I have a few questions.

The landlord has given us a deadline of 3rd Nov (i.e. tomorrow) to accept his deductions or he will trigger the dispute. We will not accept and we are preparing to go for dispute. Is there normally any advantage/disadvantage for the tenant if the landlord is the one to trigger the dispute?

Second question. The landlord claims we have damaged the carpets. There are some marks but they are minor. The carpets are okay in quality but not new. We are prepared to offer some compensation but nothing like the damages that he is seeking.

Can he say that we should pay for the replacement cost (allowing for the age of the carpets)? E.g. if the carpets are 5 years old with a 10-year lifespan, can he charge us 50% of the cost of new carpets? But in my view the damage is minor and in no way necessitates a new carpet. How would the adjudicator look at this issue? The check out report says 'partial claim - tenant'.

When we checked in the original check in report said that the house did not looked to have been cleaned to a professional standard. The landlords pressured us to accept a replacement report (ostensibly on the grounds that the pictures did not have our furniture in them). However, later we realised that the new report stated that all cleaning prior to check in was done to a professional standard. Will the adjudicator consider the original report's comments? Or will the fact that we foolishly agreed to sign the replacement report (after a lot of pressure and several emails from us commenting on our concerns) mean that the adjudicator ignores this? The landlord claims he can get receipts from the estate agent managing the property to prove that the property was professionally cleaned. But nonetheless the view of the check in person (and our own view) was clearly that the house did not look professionally cleaned.

Finally, the landlord is seeking significant sums to put the garden back into the condition it was in before. The check out report claims that the garden is 'very overgrown'. He has obtained one or more ridiculously expensive quotes for this work. But myself and my sister spent a great deal of time putting the garden into a good state. I look at the check in and check out pictures and I genuinely do not see any major differences in the pictures. In one of his emails he estimated it would be 2-3 hours work but now he has obtained a quote for 450 which includes tree topping! We were in the property for 1 year. Does his ability to obtain a quote for the 'work required' mean the adjudicator is likely to side with him?

Really appreciate any help!

G_M

Sausage11 wrote: »

I've read GM's sticky but I have a few questions.not a total waste of time then.....

The landlord has given us a deadline of 3rd Nov (i.e. tomorrow) to accept his deductions or he will trigger the dispute. We will not accept and we are preparing to go for dispute. Is there normally any advantage/disadvantage for the tenant if the landlord is the one to trigger the dispute?
makes no difference who triggers. The arbitrator will decide on the basis of the evidence provided by each party.


Second question. The landlord claims we have damaged the carpets. There are some marks but they are minor. The carpets are okay in quality but not new. We are prepared to offer some compensation but nothing like the damages that he is seeking.
Please clarify 'damaged' and 'marks'.


Can he say that we should pay for the replacement cost (allowing for the age of the carpets)? E.g. if the carpets are 5 years old with a 10-year lifespan, can he charge us 50% of the cost of new carpets? But in my view the damage is minor and in no way necessitates a new carpet. How would the adjudicator look at this issue? The check out report says 'partial claim - tenant'.
if the 'damage' and 'marks' can not be repaired and cleaned, then replacement is the only alternative. As you point out, 'betterment' cannot be claimed.


When we checked in the original check in report said that the house did not looked to have been cleaned to a professional standard. The landlords pressured us to accept a replacement report (ostensibly on the grounds that the pictures did not have our furniture in them). However, later we realised that the new report stated that all cleaning prior to check in was done to a professional standard. Will the adjudicator consider the original report's comments? Or will the fact that we foolishly agreed to sign the replacement report (after a lot of pressure and several emails from us commenting on our concerns) mean that the adjudicator ignores this? The landlord claims he can get receipts from the estate agent managing the property to prove that the property was professionally cleaned. But nonetheless the view of the check in person (and our own view) was clearly that the house did not look professionally cleaned.
I suspect that if the LL produces a check-in report, signed by yourselves, combined with receipts for professional cleaning, the adjudicator will accept that the property was cleaned to a high standard when you moved in.


You can,of course, produce your earlier version of the check in report, plus plead 'pressure to sign', and (s)he may or may not be swayed by that.


Finally, the landlord is seeking significant sums to put the garden back into the condition it was in before. The check out report claims that the garden is 'very overgrown'. He has obtained one or more ridiculously expensive quotes for this work. But myself and my sister spent a great deal of time putting the garden into a good state. I look at the check in and check out pictures and I genuinely do not see any major differences in the pictures. In one of his emails he estimated it would be 2-3 hours work but now he has obtained a quote for 450 which includes tree topping! We were in the property for 1 year. Does his ability to obtain a quote for the 'work required' mean the adjudicator is likely to side with him?

Really appreciate any help!

If you produce the photos from the start and end of tenancy, and argue 2-3 hours work is needed, this may well be sufficient. Better still get a couple of quotes showing hourly rates from local gardeners. 3 hours work at £15-£20 ph does not = £450!

Sausage11

Hi GM,

Thanks for your feedback. I've created a long document with lots of images of before/after pictures of the carpets and garden, together with the check in/out comments. However, I can't see a way to post this so I've put it on a google drive.

The link is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yv8qT48nEloj6JDOh60Y_04In6Ae_Cvw/view?usp=sharing

As before, any help much appreciated!

pinkshoes

The carpets didn't look great when you moved in.

Have you hired one of those carpet cleaners?

The only one I would not dispute is the burn mark. The LL cannot claim betterment. If it was a quality carpet with an expected life of 10 years and was 5 years old, then you should pay 50% for a new one.

If it was a cheapo carpet then 5 years would be its limit.

smem18

Allow it to go to dispute and actually don't worry about it too much.
It is the landlord who has to prove that he has a right to take your deposit money for damages, not you.

All you need to have prepared is the before and after photos, the written inventories from when you moved in and out and also a copy of your tenancy agreement.

When I went to dispute I also uploaded an A4 typed page explaining the condition of the property when I moved in and out and why I felt the landlords charges were unfair. I don't know whether they take this into consideration but it made me feel better!!
I also got a competing quote for the curtain cleaning they were trying to charge me to show how ridiculous their quote was (they tried to charge us £600!!)

FBaby

Did you get the carpets cleaned? W&T seems fine but needing a clean. Carpet cleaning can be £50 or more per room.

Sausage11

Thanks All,

Anymore feedback on the state of the carpets is much appreciated. Also, does anyone have any thoughts on whether the before and after pictures of the garden suggest that the garden is significantly overgrown compared to when we checked in?

One thing I'm still unsure about is why the burn mark would warrant a replacement carpet. I hadn't even realised it was a burn mark - I thought it was a change in the way the pile of the carpet was laying given the door being open on that part. My thought is that I accept that the carpet has been damaged and that I should compensate the landlord for this. But I was thinking 30 pounds or something for what is in my mind only a small cosmetic issue. Is this unreasonable of me? (Be gentle!).

Last question. One of the things listed is for various marks on the walls of a couple of the rooms. I think the majority of them are W+T but a few might need a bit of a touch up. What would you suggest offering for someone to come in and touch up a few different (very small) points on the walls?

To answer people's questions about cleaning. We ended up booking 2 sets of cleaners. The first were awful and we're in dispute with them about their service. They were supposed to provide a professional cleaning service including cleaning the carpets to the required level. Some of what they did, or didn't do, was simply ridiculous. The check out report was done after this. The landlord then sent me a text with a list of issues noted. We then got in another cleaning team to focus on these issues - they were fantastic. Carpets were not mentioned by the landlord at the time as I recall. So our view was that we'd sorted out all issues raised by the landlord. We were then pretty irate when he started saying that the damage we'd caused to the carpets could potentially run into hundreds, if not thousands, of pounds.

The above is also why I think the fact that the initial check in report stated that the house only looked to have been cleaned to a domestic, rather than professional level, is important. If the adjudicator accepts this, and if GM's sticky is correct in saying that 'if the property was not cleaned to that standard at the start of the tenancy, the LL cannot enforce such a clause", then this would nullify some of their claims against us.

I forgot to mention. The landlord has not released any of the deposit whatsoever. Will this count against them? I have not asked them to do so. It is now 2 months since we moved out.

Sausage11

One more point in reply to smem18's comment. My worry is that the landlord is good at this. They know the system and they're not stupid. They have multiple properties. They've got a ridiculous quote for the gardening (450 pounds) as a part of the evidence they're building up. So I feel that I need to be very prepared in return.

[Deleted User]

The only point I would make having been in the carpet trade some years ago is that these type of plain carpets are terrible for showing the dirt and very mark and are only fit for bedrooms.But they do clean up quite well for a while.

Craig1981

you need to put your dispute in when asked to by the arbitration service - list everything you have mentioned here, with full evidence, photographic evidence will work best

if a burn mark is being claimed on the carpet, the site where it is needs to be shown as not burned on the moving in report.

my only question would be is why you didnt report the burn within two weeks of moving in, in writing?

do not ignore any communication from them or the landlord.

i did a dispute earlier this year for family members, they claimed door damage and sink damage, and reduced their claim from £500 odd to only £50 for door damage, as my evidence wasnt strong enough for the door claim. they claimed £250 for the door, only got £50 as was repairable, and this amount was a reasonable repairable cost.

took about 4 weeks

Sausage11

Thanks Craig1981.

The burn must have been caused by us - there were pictures of the carpet at check in (both check in reports) showing there was no burn. So I accept responsibility. I was only saying that while I noticed a mark, I thought it was the change in the way the pile of the carpet was laying - I didn't realise it was a burn mark.

The question then is is this a small cosmetic mark for which modest compensation should be offered, or as it is a mark that cannot be removed does this warrant a replacement carpet?