POPLA Britannia Parking - DEX MSCP Newcastle

bigalogigalo

appeal entered.

It would only let me put 2000 characters in so I put text in the main box on the main point with no signs in the parking area, and had the photos of the parking area ONLY and the other 3 points from the template on the word document

FINGERS CROSSED!

KeithP

bigalogigalo wrote: »

appeal entered.

It would only let me put 2000 characters in so I put text in the main box on the main point with no signs in the parking area, and had the photos of the parking area ONLY and the other 3 points from the template on the word document

FINGERS CROSSED!

Why on earth didn't you follow the guidance clearly spelt out in post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?...

These then get saved as PDFs and uploaded to POPLA under OTHER (ONLY) - do not think you only have 2000 characters in some box on the POPLA wepage!

bigalogigalo

KeithP wrote: »

Why on earth didn't you follow the guidance clearly spelt out in post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?...

I spent nearly a full day reading all the information. There is alot there so it's not possible to retain everything I'm afraid and it's reasonable to expect that sometimes, newbies like me will miss things...

Saying that, thankfully, as I stated above, I wrote my intro in the characters box and said 'see the attached pdf document for more evidence including photos and a detailed description of 3 more points on why the charge is invalid'. So I got the full templates (the ones above) copied and pasted in there, in the other box.

The appeal is in there now, so it's a waiting game.

Hopefully I haven't messed anything else up Keith!

Coupon-mad

bigalogigalo wrote: »

appeal entered.

It would only let me put 2000 characters in so I put text in the main box on the main point with no signs in the parking area, and had the photos of the parking area ONLY and the other 3 points from the template...

Oh no...no-one here does that and it's covered in the NEWBIES thread 3rd post. I go into detail about how to do a POPLA appeal, I show good examples that are twelve pages or more long...like books!

When you saw that restriction, you could have searched the forum for 2000 words POPLA and found the answer in 0.1 seconds.

:eek:

Think about it...how do you think we submit all the long POPLA appeals we show here? Did it not cross your mind as you deleted all those carefully constructed words, that it must be wrong because YOU KNOW we submit long POPLA appeals ans we gave that one the nod?

Talk about grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. You cannot add to it, what you put in is your entire appeal now.

At least you know to sit tight when it loses (sorry)...

bigalogigalo

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Oh no...no-one here does that and it's covered in the NEWBIES thread 3rd post. I go into detail about how to do a POPLA appeal, I show good examples that are twelve pages or more long...like books!

When you saw that restriction, you could have searched the forum for 2000 words POPLA and found the answer in 0.1 seconds.

:eek:

Think about it...how do you think we submit all the long POPLA appeals we show here? Did it not cross your mind as you deleted all those carefully constructed words, that it must be wrong because YOU KNOW we submit long POPLA appeals ans we gave that one the nod?

Talk about grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. You cannot add to it, what you put in is your entire appeal now.

At least you know to sit tight when it loses (sorry)...

I could withdraw my appeal? But I don't think I could apply again if I do. So I might as well leave it and see if it is successful.

Thing is, I didn't delete all the carefully constructed words from the template. They are still there. I just moved it to the pdf which I attached.

I said in the 2000 characters box that I have more evidence in the attached pdf

Then in the pdf I have the photos AND then I've copied and pasted all the wording I posted above detailing the 3 points from the templates as additional evidence. Sort of like a 'please see attached for more info'. So I have still submitted that as evidence, and they will have to read it.

So there is still a chance.

Will have to see what happens. I'm so annoyed that after all this time and effort I might have messed it up.

Coupon-mad

Thing is, I didn't delete all the carefully constructed words from the template. They are still there. I just moved it to the pdf which I attached.

I said in the 2000 characters box that I have more evidence in the attached pdf

Oh phew! You did it right! Still might not win some do not, but NO-ONE pays.

bigalogigalo

Update. Have received the evidence from Britannia. I've censored them (hope I haven't missed any this time!) and put them in my onedrive here:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aqr-vrTTDqMohcVJE3I-O5XshYhjSw

(I hope this doesn't break any rules and you are able to access them ok. Let me know if a problem and I'll try and sort - uploading loads of separate images was upsetting people.)

There is the letter from Britannia to popla, pictures of the MSCP - during the day in feb!, the log for parking payments that evening, the subject access request and evidence with the landowner.

Basically, they've said the expected "we meet all regulations, the PCN stands, you should find the signs," etc. usual stuff

Bearing in mind I attached a pdf with the template detailed in post 11 above, they haven't addressed most issues I brought up:
1) no signs in the parking area.
2) signs in car park are not prominent, clear etc.
3) The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge

I've got a max of 2000 characters to respond and this is my draft. I'm pretty happy with it.
Would anyone suggest any changes? I'm at 1997 characters so far.

1) Especially at night, drivers must be alert for immediate dangers e.g. pedestrians. Signs must be clearly visible and obvious, bearing in mind driver’s attention is on dangers. They are not, due to poor placement and insufficient lighting. Equally, pedestrians must be alert for cars as there is no safe footpath. Therefore, if signs are missed upon entry/exit, signs/machines should be in the parking area also.
2) The driver parked on the same (Level 4 - ground) floor as the entrance. See the photos I attached with the initial appeal. Once past the booth, there are NO signs or machines. See map on pg30. The driver DID seek out machines/signs in this area but did not find ANY & thought there was no charge, hence no payment. Therefore the signage is NOT ‘clearly visible’ nor ‘sufficient’.
3) Your pictures were daytime. The driver parked at the MSCP at night. Your pictures don’t give a true picture of how visible the signs are, or ANY true picture from a driver’s viewpoint.
4) Your pics: Pg5,6,7,8,16,17,18–These are outside, in the dark, with no lighting on signs, located to the side (thus do not reflect headlights). They can’t be seen clearly by drivers (or pedestrians). Thus not ‘clearly visible’.
5) Pgs 4,9,10,19-25,27-29-These are to the side as drivers enter, in the dark, with insufficient lighting, do not reflect headlights. It is very dark when entering the MSCP at night (pgs 28/29–taken during day!) lighting is very poor around the entrance. Thus signs to the side aren’t ‘clearly visible’.
6) Pg26 – This is the ONLY sign which headlights see upon entering the MSCP. It only states MSCP opening times. Thus there are NO clearly visible signs stating t&c’s from a driver’s viewpoint.
7) Pg19, what is peeling off the sign? Your signs are out of date and photos from 9 months ago. You have failed to prove that your signs meet sec. 18&19 of the BPA’s code of practise.
8) I have not been proven as the driver therefore am not liable for the PCN. See my original evidence.

bigalogigalo

Due to the 7 day restriction, I need to post my reply tomorrow night. If anyone has any advice, I'd be very grateful. Otherwise I'll post the above.

I read all the appeal examples and feel mine is appropriate and gets the points across.

What do you think??

Coupon-mad

They do not need to say anything about this, as the PCN was a POFA one and this template point is only for use where it's non-POFA:

The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge

The only thing to change about your comments is the way you address the PPC in it, e.g.:

Your pictures were daytime.

But these comments should be addressed to the POPLA Assessor. Britannia do not see comments. So you write 'their pictures'.

bigalogigalo

ok thanks coupon mad, ill get the comments uploaded.

You don't think I'm missing anything? Does it seem ok to you?