Badly installed insulation

Green_hopeful

Hi

Just thought I would mention this in case someone else has a similar situation. So my house was insulated in 2001 under a government scheme.

I have only lived here for three years.

Both cavity and loft insulation. The cavity wall insulation wasn’t done very well so they had to come and rectify that.

We have rooms in the roof and I noticed there was no insulation in the skillings (diagonal ceiling). I looked at lots of options but decided to go with kingspan boards as the only thing I could see would slot in and leave 50mm airgap.

Whilst doing it I looked at the existing insulation and found that rather than being laid between the joists, two layers of insulation were laid over the joists often with the paper and rubbish still underneath. This allowed 8 inches of airflow under the insulation and straight under the second floor.

Explains why our house has been so cold and draughty. And also why we have so much condensation and mould in our bathroom.

If you looked in the loft it looked fine but it wasn’t doing anything.

Just thought I would mention it in case anyone else has been fooled and is paying more than they should.

There is a sign from the original installer Milfold Group which was a corrillion company.

I have over the last two weekends lifted and relaid all of it. Massive pain but can’t live without proper insulation.

Davesnave

I get it that inspecting insulation is not something everyone prioritises or does carefully. Many lofts are inhospitable places.

Nowadays, the minimum standard is 270mm, which translates into one roll laid following the joists and the next one ideally in the opposite direction, but all sorts of other things actually happen. A regular living in Wales was on here last week saying her guy peeled all the aluminium backing off, tore it up and threw it around loose!

Also, trades ferreting for wires or pipes often throw it around and don't replace properly.


No one can expect insulation installers to sweep the loft, but they ought to install properly. The guys who did mine in 2016 came from Wales on a free energy company ticket and did a first-class job in sweltering heat. Maybe if I hadn't been watching them, they might have been tempted to rush. Having taken the original stuff out before re-furbishing, I have considerable sympathy for the chaps doing this filthy work!

stator

I also have Skeiling ceilings at the front and back of the house because my house is Laing Easiform. The trouble is they are completely inaccessible from the roof space. I had thought about insulating them when I get the soffits replaced, as I think I could access them. I also thought about insulating them internally with PIR board, but I it would make them look a lot bigger , so haven't done anything yet.




They are quite lazy at installing insulation, I've redone most of mine (not the skeilings) with a thin layer of PIR board between the battens, and then thick fluffy insulation between the joists. The boarded section is all PIR.

Apodemus

I knew someone who had insulation done, under the same Government scheme. The insulation was laid over the wiring, which overheated and caught fire, while she was away on holiday. Fortunately (?) the fire was below a plastic header tank, which melted and burst, the mains-pressure water pouring into the loft put the fire out, but continued to pour for a week or so until she came back from holiday. The end result was that she was out of the house for six months. Unfortunately, insulating properly is one of these tasks that is more technical than it may at first seem and the insulation industry seems to have an overabundance of cowboys, milking Government schemes.

Davesnave

Apodemus wrote: »

Unfortunately, insulating properly is one of these tasks that is more technical than it may at first seem and the insulation industry seems to have an overabundance of cowboys, milking Government schemes.

Can you point me to anywhere where there's a very high level of agreement about the need to put insulation under all the wiring?


I don't believe it's part of building regs.


Having said this, I took no chances and arranged most of our wiring to pass down a central route over 100mm Celotex installed just for the purpose.


NB. Our 'scheme' insulation install was extremely well monitored, with a person doing an EPC and photographing the 3 lofts before and after installation. I think those funding these things have become wiser.

moneyistooshorttomention

Davesnave wrote: »

Nowadays, the minimum standard is 270mm, which translates into one roll laid following the joists and the next one ideally in the opposite direction, but all sorts of other things actually happen. A regular living in Wales was on here last week saying her guy peeled all the aluminium backing off, tore it up and threw it around loose!

!

Yep...that was me that got the dud guy that tore off the packaging and threw it around:mad:

In hindsight - I honestly didnt believe it could be possible for anyone to do this in such a wrong way. I'd put some added insulation up in the loft in my last house myself (as there was a loft ladder there - so I could get at it) and I'd read the instructions and followed them. NB; That was after the dud workman there that did the "grant" insulation for me earlier.

Hence I thought "Well if I can get that right - and I'm an office worker - so it's not my job to do that sort of thing - then surely a tradesperson will get it right".

That's the last time I make that assumption:cool::cool:

In hindsight - well...I'm now having a loft ladder fitted shortly - so that I can get to and from my loft myself and check things out. Looking back - I would have had that loft ladder put up there as one of the first jobs I did on this house - as a couple of times I've found tradespeople have got away with doing things wrong up there that they probably wouldnt have dared try if they'd known I could/would be up there checking on them at the time.

EDIT; Yep...a similar thing happened in my last house (prior to my having a loft ladder put in there). I had a "tradesperson" come to lay extra insulation under a Government scheme. When I was subsequently able to get up there I found that he'd just thrown it on top of all sorts of old carpets previous house-owner had put up there. It would have taken him 10 minutes to tell me about those carpets and then offer to bring them down for me - before starting his job.

The moral to that story is = whenever you buy a house that might need work doing on it - put a loft ladder up to the loft first. It's astonishing just how many tradespeople need to get into the loft for something - and then there's the checking on the "duds" that will make a mess of laying loft insulation properly. It's not that dear a job to do. Loft ladders themselves can be bought for around £100-£120 and a few £ for a kit of "bits" to fix them. I'm having to pay for labour as well this time (no father to do it for free this time) and the cost, including labour, will be a bit short of £300.

Apodemus

Davesnave wrote: »

Can you point me to anywhere where there's a very high level of agreement about the need to put insulation under all the wiring?


I don't believe it's part of building regs.


Having said this, I took no chances and arranged most of our wiring to pass down a central route over 100mm Celotex installed just for the purpose.


NB. Our 'scheme' insulation install was extremely well monitored, with a person doing an EPC and photographing the 3 lofts before and after installation. I think those funding these things have become wiser.

I don’t know the answer to the building regs question, but I think it would be in the electrical regs, rather than insulation, with a larger core wiring being required where the wires need to be under insulation.

Davesnave

Apodemus wrote: »

I don’t know the answer to the building regs question, but I think it would be in the electrical regs, rather than insulation, with a larger core wiring being required where the wires need to be under insulation.

Part P of the Building Regs covers domestic electrical installations.


I just wondered if it covered the insulation question.


Like you, I don't want to read it! :rotfl: