Wills and testaments, husband refuses to severe joint tenancy so I can't protect my share...

SG00

Hi.
I am in a bit of a dilemma regarding Last will and testament issues. I have been living with my husband for about 20 years, we married about 3 years ago and we bought a property as joint tenants 2 years ago. We have no children and won’t be having any.
I want to write a will to protect my share. All the solicitors I contacted told me about mirror wills, but I am not happy with this option.
I want my share to ultimately go to my own family (2 siblings) when my husband and I are both dead, or to my chosen charity if my siblings are also dead. I am aware that as we are married and bought the house as joint tenants, my husband will automatically get my share. He has been very reluctant about writing wills and the biggest problem is that he absolutely refuses to severe our tenancy from joint tenants to tenants in common, which would allow me to put my share in a trust.
I am worried that my share either go to his own family or to his new partner/wife if he meets someone in the future.
So… I asked a couple of solicitors about writing a mutual/joint will (irrevocable) and they told me that mutual wills are very onerous and rare and that they do not accept instructions to write mutual wills.
Could someone help me and let me know if they have written mutual wills ? How much does it cost in the UK? Are there solicitors specialised in mutual wills ?
As my husband refuses to severe our tenancy, I am stuck and do not know what to do. Is there not any other way that I could protect my share ? Is it for example possible to include in ‘mirror’ wills a clause saying that these wills cannot be revoked or amended after the first partner dies ? (I read online that some ‘mirror’ wills were eventually considered being ‘mutual’ wills when the case went to court)… Or perhaps write 2 individual wills and add a special irrevocability clause in my own will, saying that MY will cannot be amended or revoked and specifically state that I do not want my husband’s family to have my share (and give all their names)? I am new to writing wills so I just don’t know what to do and would really appreciate some help there…

Dox

SoniaG wrote: »

Hi.
I am in a bit of a dilemma regarding Last will and testament issues. I have been living with my husband for about 20 years, we married about 3 years ago and we bought a property as joint tenants 2 years ago. We have no children and won’t be having any.

He’s very much into the ‘what is yours is mine and vice-versa’

I think you'll find that is exactly what the marriage vows promise. What baffles me is why you married someone you don't trust and whose family you clearly regard with disdain - and then bought a property at joint tenants.

Turning the argument round (which can sometimes help, sometimes not), how would you feel if he died first and left his 'share' of the house to his family, meaning you had to sell and find somewhere else to live?

What you are suggesting in terms of wills is quite simply unworkable, so not worth pursuing while the property remains owned by you as joint tenants. Yours doesn't sound like the happiest of relationships, so possibly serving notice on him to sever the tenancy might be your best course of action. Would it really be such a disaster if it did cause a row/end the marriage?

Yorkshireman99

SoniaG wrote: »

Hi.
I am in a bit of a dilemma regarding Last will and testament issues. I have been living with my husband for about 20 years, we married about 3 years ago and we bought a property as joint tenants 2 years ago. We have no children and won’t be having any.
I want to write a will to protect my share. All the solicitors I contacted told me about mirror wills, but I am not happy with this option because I don’t trust my husband with what he will do with my share if I happen to die before him. I am aware that he can change the mirror wills at any time after I die.
I want my share to ultimately go to my own family (2 siblings) when my husband and I are both dead, or to my chosen charity if my siblings are also dead. I am aware that as we are married and bought the house as joint tenants, my husband will automatically get my share. He has been very reluctant about writing wills and the biggest problem is that he absolutely refuses to severe our tenancy from joint tenants to tenants in common, which would allow me to put my share in a trust. I know that I don’t need his permission to severe it but in our case, severing it without his permission is not an option (not now anyway) as I know that it would lead to massive arguments and a break-down of our marriage.
I am worried that my share either go to his own family (he has 4 siblings, 2 of them estranged, and 2 nieces) or to his new partner/wife if he meets someone in the future. This is especially important as I have contributed to 70% of all we’ve spent on our property (deposit, mortage, etc.) and he seems to think that it is not normal to want to protect our own share. He’s very much into the ‘what is yours is mine and vice-versa’ and ‘I do not care what happens to our money when we’re both dead’ principles, and I am at the completely opposite way. I very much care where my hard-earned money goes to. I certainly do not want it to go to his family (who I barely know, and to whom he gives money because they like wasting money and never live within their means) or new partner.
So… I asked a couple of solicitors about writing a mutual/joint will (irrevocable) and they told me that mutual wills are very onerous and rare and that they do not accept instructions to write mutual wills.
Could someone help me and let me know if they have written mutual wills ? How much does it cost in the UK? Are there solicitors specialised in mutual wills ?
As my husband refuses to severe our tenancy, I am stuck and do not know what to do. Is there not any other way that I could protect my share ? Is it for example possible to include in ‘mirror’ wills a clause saying that these wills cannot be revoked or amended after the first partner dies ? (I read online that some ‘mirror’ wills were eventually considered being ‘mutual’ wills when the case went to court)… Or perhaps write 2 individual wills and add a special irrevocability clause in my own will, saying that MY will cannot be amended or revoked and specifically state that I do not want my husband’s family to have my share (and give all their names)? I am new to writing wills so I just don’t know what to do and would really appreciate some help there…
I am also very confused about individual wills. My husband has actually suggested that we each write our own will but I know that it’s because he knows that he can change/cancel his own will at any time, so he’s not worried about individual wills. But surely he would not be able to change MY will when I’m dead.
Any ideas ? Any suggestions ? I am totally lost ! Sorry for the long post…

From what you say the marriage almost broken down already. I concur with Dox that you should sever the joint tenancy without delay and make an. Individual will leaving everything to your family. You seem to have explored all the avenues and if your husband will not cooperate then apart from divorce there seems little else you can do. Don’t delay in severing the tenancy.

SevenOfNine

Dox wrote: »

What you are suggesting in terms of wills is quite simply unworkable, so not worth pursuing while the property remains owned by you as joint tenants. QUOTE]

That.

If you genuinely feel you can't (or don't dare) sever the joint tenants agreement without his permission, what else do you have that is in your OWN name? Any bank A/Cs savings A/Cs?

If not, then perhaps it's time you opened one/some & started squirreling away some money of your own. Marriage is a partnership, not a dictatorship, but to be fair perhaps he feels you'll leave your share of the house to your siblings if he co-operates with the change to tenants in common & he'll be unable to afford to buy them out or buy somewhere else.

I was going to suggest you discuss the ownership change, along with mirror wills with a life interest trust, so you can both leave your share to your siblings, but with you/him retaining the right to remain in it until you/he dies, remarries or co-habits (not sure if the latter is workable though).

It doesn't sound there's a huge level of trust in this marriage & even if you could agree on the above, there would be nothing stopping either of you from sneakily getting another will written revoking it.

Ms_Chocaholic

Thought I recognised it, you've posted (and I've replied) before. I'm unsure whether you think you'll get different answers by reposting but the same advice (that I and others gave) still applies.


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5903984/uk-last-will-and-testament-with-a-european-beneficiary-living-in-france

SG00

Ms_Chocaholic wrote: »

Thought I recognised it, you've posted (and I've replied) before. I'm unsure whether you think you'll get different answers by reposting but the same advice (that I and others gave) still applies.


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5903984/uk-last-will-and-testament-with-a-european-beneficiary-living-in-france

Yes it was me. But to be honest in this new post I was enquiring more about 'Mutual wills'. Perhaps I should have formulated my post better and insisted on getting advice about writing mutual wills. I am finding it very hard to get people to share their experience about mutual wills (it seems quite rare)... It seems that it would resolve my problem as he refuses to severe the tenancy.
Has anyone used 'mutual wills'?

SG00

SevenOfNine wrote: »

Dox wrote: »

What you are suggesting in terms of wills is quite simply unworkable, so not worth pursuing while the property remains owned by you as joint tenants. QUOTE]

That.

If you genuinely feel you can't (or don't dare) sever the joint tenants agreement without his permission, what else do you have that is in your OWN name? Any bank A/Cs savings A/Cs?

If not, then perhaps it's time you opened one/some & started squirreling away some money of your own. Marriage is a partnership, not a dictatorship, but to be fair perhaps he feels you'll leave your share of the house to your siblings if he co-operates with the change to tenants in common & he'll be unable to afford to buy them out or buy somewhere else.

I was going to suggest you discuss the ownership change, along with mirror wills with a life interest trust, so you can both leave your share to your siblings, but with you/him retaining the right to remain in it until you/he dies, remarries or co-habits (not sure if the latter is workable though).

It doesn't sound there's a huge level of trust in this marriage & even if you could agree on the above, there would be nothing stopping either of you from sneakily getting another will written revoking it.

'It doesn't sound there's a huge level of trust in this marriage & even if you could agree on the above, there would be nothing stopping either of you from sneakily getting another will written revoking it.'
I'm not sure I understand this last sentence. Does it mean that any individual will I may write after severing the tenancy could be revoked after I die? I thought that the whole point of severing the tenancy and then writing a will was to make sure that one person's share would be protected and that no one could revoke that person's will?

Ms_Chocaholic

If you die first, your will CANNOT leave half of your house to another person as you and your husband share it.

After you die, anything can happen and what is in your will will not apply any longer. When your husband dies, his will defines how HIS estate will be distributed. Therefore, after your death, your husband can write another will or just destroy the previous will and the testacy rules will apply.

If your husband dies intestate, the rules regarding where the money goes is according to law, your siblings won't get a jot. They won't say, oh let's take a look at SoniaG's will after Mr G's death and distribute it according to what you wanted. It doesn't happen like that.

The only thing you CAN DO is sever the tenancy.

Yorkshireman99

SoniaG wrote: »

Yes it was me. But to be honest in this new post I was enquiring more about 'Mutual wills'. Perhaps I should have formulated my post better and insisted on getting advice about writing mutual wills. I am finding it very hard to get people to share their experience about mutual wills (it seems quite rare)... It seems that it would resolve my problem as he refuses to severe the tenancy.
Has anyone used 'mutual wills'?

You don’t need permission to sever a joint tenancy. Any good solicitor will get it done for you. Your husband has no say in the matter. You can will your part once you have severed the tenancy.

Yorkshireman99

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

You don’t need permission to sever a joint tenancy. Any good solicitor will get it done for you. Your husband has no say in the matter. You can will your part once you have severed the tenancy.

Forget all about mutual will. Not practical in your situation.

Ms_Chocaholic

https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-joint-tenants-to-tenants-in-common