How on earth did this ever fit together?

scarletjim

Can anyone explain to me how on earth my shower arm was connected to the wall before it broke? As it doesn’t look like any of the ones I can find online, and the connection actually looks impossible... The relevant parts are in these pictures – I’ve shown them separately, then in the only possible way that I could see they could connect:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z4ptj03kryfwzf0/AADi16EP9gZIguSolRuBzIUXa?dl=0

Here’s what happened – my GF somehow broke the shower arm yesterday. When we tried to unscrew it, it snapped and left a piece of pipe in the wall. We tried to get that bit out, but it was just spinning, and we couldn’t get it out. So we unscrewed the brass fitting, and removed it that way. However now we’ve got the 3 parts (the main body of the pipe, the part of the pipe that broke off, and the brass fitting), we’re not sure how it could possibly have ever fitted together (and can’t remember how they were when it finally came out). The brass part has a thread that it uses to screw into another fitting in the wall – so how did it connect to the shower arm pipe? The only way I can see it connecting is in the order I’ve shown in the later pictures (4 and 5), but if so then how did the brass part ever get over that reddish coloured lump in the broken bit of pipe? It couldn't have been put on from the other end, as there is a similar lump that end too. Is it possible that the entire arm was manufactured with the brass fitting already in place (i.e. before the reddish lump, with thread facing towards the wall)? Or could the plumber / builder have created / welded it like this?

If my assumption above is right, where on earth can I buy a shower arm with that brass part already in the right place? Or what else can I do to replace our shower arm?

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to try and help.

(By the way, if anyone can improve my terminology of ‘brass fitting’ and ‘lump’ then that would be helpful too! :rotfl:)

ceredigion

Nut on first, new olive, https://www.screwfix.com/p/olives-15mm-20-pack/69557 do up tight.

EachPenny

ceredigion wrote: »

Nut on first, new olive, https://www.screwfix.com/p/olives-15mm-20-pack/69557 do up tight.

Cut broken pipe end square first.

OP. The reddish coloured lump is called an olive. The whole joint is known as a compression joint. The nut goes on the pipe first, followed by the olive. The end of the pipe (cut square and clean) goes into the 'fixed' part and the nut is then threaded on. The nut and olive cause the joint to grip the pipe.

The key thing when refitting is to get it tightened by just the right amount. Not enough and it will leak, too much and it will leak. There are many conflicting views on how to get it just right.

ETA: Google 'making a compression joint' for further advice.

scarletjim

Aha, I see, so that 'reddish lump' wasn't already on the pipe, it was an 'olive' added after the nut. Really helpful explanation, so thanks for that.

I think we can use the old arm - I've used a metal flat file to tidy the end up so it's well squared off and near enough full circular. Will that be sufficient or does it need to be absolutely perfect?

Think we might get a pack of olives tomorrow night and try this. I've wedged a sponge down the wall around the pipe, so we'll know if it's leaking easily, and before it can do any damage. Will report back on our success or otherwise...

EachPenny

scarletjim wrote: »

I think we can use the old arm - I've used a metal flat file to tidy the end up so it's well squared off and near enough full circular. Will that be sufficient or does it need to be absolutely perfect?

Not necessarily perfect, but if it isn't close then you'll have trouble getting the olive on without distorting that too, and if not reasonably close to being prefectly round it may leak.

One option might be to cut a short piece of the arm off to get back to a point where it is closer to being true round.

Looking at the pictures of the break, I suspect that it is related to fatigue, with people over a period of time pushing or pulling on the shower arm. The final breakage might have been a pull down, with the final piece of attachment bending slightly before snapping. This would easily leave you with a pipe end which is out of shape.

Cutting something like 10-15mm off the end would get around this - but first check that the arm is a constant diameter along the whole length and isn't tapering down as it approaches the shower head.

A good way of checking diameters of pipe is to wrap a piece of paper around the pipe with the edges (of the paper) slightly out of alignment. Then make a pencil mark on the paper being careful to mark both the top and bottom layer of paper. You can then move the paper to another part of the pipe and if the marks still align you know the pipe is the same diameter.

that

dont put the olive on the end so that the end of the pipe and the bottom of the olive are flush, the pipe should jut out a few mm from the olive as per vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOxZE4zL6rE

scarletjim

Thanks all. Quick update - we're struggling to get hold of an olive that fits. The 15mm is much too small, 22mm is too big, we thought we'd cracked it when we found a 3/4 inch olive (about 19mm), but that was too big too. We've been to a few plumbing supply merchants, they've all said they've not seen a pipe that size before, and that it must be an unusual one (one guy said perhaps a one-off from Victoria Plum, another said it looks like it may have come from China or somewhere like that).

In the shop, a guy behind me in the queue suggested that we might be able to re-use the old olive by cutting the pipe inside it very carefully with a hacksaw, freeing the olive but leaving it unharmed. Sounds tricky, but we've nothing to lose so might try that tomorrow. If that fails, then I might start investigating whether or not there is an adaptor that we can buy to convert our fitting in the wall into a standard size one. All very frustrating, but will keep updating here in case anyone has any bright ideas.

ceredigion

scarletjim wrote: »

Thanks all. Quick update - we're struggling to get hold of an olive that fits. The 15mm is much too small, 22mm is too big, we thought we'd cracked it when we found a 3/4 inch olive (about 19mm), but that was too big too. We've been to a few plumbing supply merchants, they've all said they've not seen a pipe that size before, and that it must be an unusual one (one guy said perhaps a one-off from Victoria Plum, another said it looks like it may have come from China or somewhere like that).

In the shop, a guy behind me in the queue suggested that we might be able to re-use the old olive by cutting the pipe inside it very carefully with a hacksaw, freeing the olive but leaving it unharmed. Sounds tricky, but we've nothing to lose so might try that tomorrow. If that fails, then I might start investigating whether or not there is an adaptor that we can buy to convert our fitting in the wall into a standard size one. All very frustrating, but will keep updating here in case anyone has any bright ideas.

Google, Olive Puller

EachPenny

scarletjim wrote: »

In the shop, a guy behind me in the queue suggested that we might be able to re-use the old olive by cutting the pipe inside it very carefully with a hacksaw, freeing the olive but leaving it unharmed. Sounds tricky, but we've nothing to lose so might try that tomorrow.

The pipe looks quite thin, so it might be possible, you'll need to use a very fine toothed hacksaw blade (like a junior hacksaw one) otherwise the blade will snag on the pipe.

To minimise the risk of damaging the olive the way I'd go about it is to first cut (longitudinally) the opposite end on the broken off bit of pipe taking the cut from that end (the one which was originally in the wall fitting) almost down to the olive. I would then carefully sand (or file) that end of the pipe to remove any burr from the saw cut and if possible to make the external diameter of the pipe very slightly smaller.

If the olive now won't slide down to the cut part of the pipe then use the back of the nut to apply **gentle** pressure to the olive.

To get a better idea of what I mean, look at your image "Shower 03.jpg". Imagine the pipe as it is in that picture with a saw cut running from the surface it is standing on up almost to the olive. Then take the nut in the orientation it is in the image and place it on top of the pipe and push down.

If pressure alone doesn't work then the next step would be to apply very light hammer taps to the nut, but doing so squarely. The easiest way of doing that is to place a small bit of wood over the top of the nut and hit (preferably with a small hammer) directly above the centre of the pipe.

The most important thing to avoid is distorting the pipe as you cut and pull/push. If the pipe distorts then it will distort the olive as well.

andyhop

Mira use a lot of 18mm olives for there showers

traineepensioner

scarletjim wrote: »

Thanks all. Quick update - we're struggling to get hold of an olive that fits. The 15mm is much too small, 22mm is too big, we thought we'd cracked it when we found a 3/4 inch olive (about 19mm), but that was too big too. We've been to a few plumbing supply merchants, they've all said they've not seen a pipe that size before, and that it must be an unusual one (one guy said perhaps a one-off from Victoria Plum, another said it looks like it may have come from China or somewhere like that).

In the shop, a guy behind me in the queue suggested that we might be able to re-use the old olive by cutting the pipe inside it very carefully with a hacksaw, freeing the olive but leaving it unharmed. Sounds tricky, but we've nothing to lose so might try that tomorrow. If that fails, then I might start investigating whether or not there is an adaptor that we can buy to convert our fitting in the wall into a standard size one. All very frustrating, but will keep updating here in case anyone has any bright ideas.

Try Ebay....https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=18mm+compression+olive&_frs=1