Building regulations not met, who is responsible?

Penguin89

Hi all, hoping for some advice.

Purchased house in March this year.

Chimney breasts removed from two upstairs rooms by previous owner who was also the builder. We were ensured that building regulations had been met and we were provided with a certificate of this from the local council.

The supporting of the chimney stack doesn’t seem very professional and we are having problems with leaks during storms. Roofers can’t seem to do anything but one has mentioned getting a structural engineer out to look at the work done to make sure it is safe (I’m waiting to hear back from a local firm to confirm a date of visit).

After a bit of research it looks like the work done probably doesn’t conform to the local authority’s regulations and I’m guessing the moment I call the council they will investigate and demand that work is carried out to make it safe (and rightly so!).

But...as a buyer who followed the correct procedures and made sure that a regulations certificate was present, am I really responsible for paying potentially thousands to have the work done? Or is it the responsibility of the builder who is also the previous owner to foot the bill as they didn’t meet the specified regulations? Or (very unlikely) is it something to do with the council as they failed to inspect the work or investigate with and rigour?

Thank you in advance for your responses!

Newuser1987

You are already assuming that it doesnt comply based on one builders quick comment.

If they have a building regulation approval then the works were likely fine at the time they were done. What research have you found to say they are not. If you are referring to gallow brackets then this was previously complied with building regulations and they have only recently (few years) not been compliant.

You will certainly need to foot the bill if you want it upgraded to meet current regulations.

I am of course assuming a lot in my post but if you can give more details on why you believe it doesnt comply we may be able to give more information.

societys_child

As mentioned above, the certificate confirms it met with BRs when it was done.
Don't think you'll get far trying to get the previous owner to pay for anything.


Potentially thousands? You don't know if there is anything wrong yet.

stator

If the seller lied, then you can try taking them to small claims court for the cost of your losses.
If they didn't lie, ie the building work was fine at the time it was done, then you have no case.

Fire_Fox

Did you have a full structural survey? Could your surveyor access the potentially problematic areas?

You need written expert opinion on what does not conform to Buildings Regs, if anything. 'Builder' is a job title, could have many qualifications, registrations and memberships, or none.

Then information from Building Control about how the work got the certificate. Is the builder himself or one of his team registered in a scheme so they can certify as compliant, or did a Buildings Control officer have to do a site visit?

Councils cannot afford to investigate every verbal allegation. You need to demonstrate that the certificate was wrongly issued, if it was.

You may have free legal advice on your home insurance, or if you are a Which? Member say.

Typhoon2000

Don’t get too hung up on building regulation certificates. All it means it conformed with the then regulations when the the work was done. It may or may not conform with current regulations. Or maybe other work was done later which means it now fails. I am willing to bet the rest of the house also fails all sorts of building regulations unless it was built recently.

The presence or otherwise of a certificate should not influence any decision you make when you buy a house. Only an appropriate survey will tell you what you want to know.

Penguin89

I’m basing this on documentation from the LABC (the authority responsible for regulating local building control I believe). The reasons I believe that the work may not have been done correctly are: The height of the chimney outside the roof is greater than the height of the remaining chimney inside the roof, the gallows brackets have very small supports rather than the triangular ones recommended, the chimney stack is very wide and there is no steel plate under the stack, hence the leaking chimney.

The work was signed off in January so I’m not talking about old building regulations. This particular area has not changed since 2010 as far as I can tell.

Potentially thousands to have RSJs put in to have the chimney supported yes, this would involve removing ceilings and rebuilding part of the chimney potentially.

I did have a family member who is an ex-chartered surveyor have a look and I took his advice that the building regulations certificate shows that a qualified surveyor is satisfied with the work. My local council has confirmed that a surveyor visited and inspected the work.

Please don’t think I’m being naive here. My concern is that there is a strong contradiction between the LABC’s/structural engineer’s guidance and the building regulations certificate.

This is my first home and I’m certainly no expert on these matters.

Thank you for your responses so far.

Newuser1987

Penguin89 wrote: »

I’m basing this on documentation from the LABC (the authority responsible for regulating local building control I believe). The reasons I believe that the work may not have been done correctly are: The height of the chimney outside the roof is greater than the height of the remaining chimney inside the roof, the gallows brackets have very small supports rather than the triangular ones recommended, the chimney stack is very wide and there is no steel plate under the stack, hence the leaking chimney.

The work was signed off in January so I’m not talking about old building regulations. This particular area has not changed since 2010 as far as I can tell.

Potentially thousands to have RSJs put in to have the chimney supported yes, this would involve removing ceilings and rebuilding part of the chimney potentially.

I did have a family member who is an ex-chartered surveyor have a look and I took his advice that the building regulations certificate shows that a qualified surveyor is satisfied with the work. My local council has confirmed that a surveyor visited and inspected the work.

Please don’t think I’m being naive here. My concern is that there is a strong contradiction between the LABC’s/structural engineer’s guidance and the building regulations certificate.

This is my first home and I’m certainly no expert on these matters.

Thank you for your responses so far.

Im slightly confused as you say they were signed off in January but the works was from 2010? So someone inspected in January and was satisfied that the works were safe?

LABC guidance which I imagine you are referring to (https://www.labc.co.uk/news/how-get-it-right-removing-chimney-right-way-video-showing-wrong-way?language_content_entity=en) is just that guidance and not regulation. So if an engineer or surveyor is satisfied with the work it can still be signed off.

There are situations where gallow brackets can still be used as mentioned in the guidance. So potentially the worse case for you will need to do is install some gallow brackets at a lower level and build up the brick work to a height which is higher than the outside. However again if building control/engineer are satisfied with the work than you would only be doing this for your own peace of mind.

You best way forward is to ask for any documents that were submitted to building control and ask an engineer to come take a look.

troffasky

Newuser1987 wrote: »

Im slightly confused as you say they were signed off in January but the works was from 2010?

The OP did not explicitly say when the works were done. The OP is saying that they don't think the relevant building regulations have changed since 2010, the implication [the way I'm reading it] being that the work was done after 2010, ie they don't reckon relevant regulations haven't changed since the work was done.

Newuser1987

troffasky wrote: »

The OP did not explicitly say when the works were done. The OP is saying that they don't think the relevant building regulations have changed since 2010, the implication [the way I'm reading it] being that the work was done after 2010, ie they don't reckon relevant regulations haven't changed since the work was done.

Ah okay that makes sense. The regulations are often amended Approved Doc Part A was amended in 2013. Im not an engineer so Im not sure if any changes would have effected the support of the chimney or if the works were done before/after 2013.

However the regulations are often interpreted differently between local authorities. As an example some councils categorically do not accept Gallow Brackets some do. However both would be referencing the same Regulations.

Again I think the OP just needs to ask the question to a local engineer.