ESA Permitted Work Average hours/earnings

Vicki1980

Hello,

I’m new to this forum so please bear with me!

I’m after some advice on how the DWP calculate hours and earnings for Permitted Work whilst claiming ESA.

I currently claim ESA and I am in the support group. I have been in the support group for 3-4 years. I suffer with Rheumatoid Arthritis and Crohns Disease. I also have severe anxiety and OCD which has not been added to the claim as it has developed slowly over the last 2 years. I have recently found that it helps my anxiety to be out of the house and as such I would like to try some paid work. I am still physically unwell and so I have to balance what I can do physically with what I nee to keep my mental health stable.

I have been offered a receptionist job for 10 hours per week at NMW. Which as I’m aware is within the rules of permitted work which states you can earn a maximum of £125 per week and work up to 16 hours. However my employer would occasionally like me to work a few more hours if I am able to. I will be paid monthly.

So for example my working weeks over the course of a month could be:

Week 1) 10 hours @ £7.83 per hour = £73.80
Week 2) 16 hours @ £7.83 per hour = £125.28
Week 3) 20 hours @ £7.83 per hour = £156.60
Week 4) 10 hours @ £7.83 per hour = £73.80
Total monthly earnings: £429.48
Total hours worked in the month: 56 hours

My question is.......

Will the DWP average my hours and earnings over the month and if so how will this be done?

If they average my hours by taking the total hours worked over the month (56 hours) and divided them over 4 weeks then my hours worked per week is 14 hours and falls within the permitted work rules.
Likewise, if my earnings are averaged in the same way by taking my total monthly earnings (£429.48) and divided that over the month then my weekly earnings will be £107.37 per week and also falls within the permitted work rules.

Does anybody know if they will use the above calculations? And if they do, then even though in week 3 I worked more hours than is permitted and earned more money that is permitted will I will still be entitled to my ESA?

I hope all that makes sense!

Any advice will be gratefully received.

calcotti

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/658256/dmgch41.pdf

Calculating the hours for permitted work
41213
Where no recognizable cycle has been established, it is
1. the number of hours or
2. the average number of hours where the hours worked are likely to fluctuate
a claimant is expected to work in a week.

41214
Where the number of hours a claimant works fluctuate and there is a recognizable cycle, it is over one complete cycle of work. This complete cycle includes periods in which the claimant does no work but excludes other absences such as holidays or sickness.

41215
Where the number of hours a claimant works fluctuate and there is no recognizable cycle, it is
1. over the five week period or
2. any other period to enable the average hours to be decided more accurately immediately before the date of claim, or the date a supersession decision issued made.

41216
DMs should consider the guidance at DMG 41346 - 41434 in order to decide
1. which hours count towards the weekly total and
2. how to identify a recognizable cycle and
3. how to calculate the hours if a
3.1 recognizable cycle is established or
3.2 recognizable cycle is not established.

Vicki1980

Hi Cacotti

Thank you for your reply!

I have read those regulations but I can’t seem decipher them!

So does that say that DWP will calculate them the way I have suggested? (Sorry for being dumb! 🙈)

calcotti

Vicki1980 wrote: »

Hi Cacotti

Thank you for your reply!

I have read those regulations but I can’t seem decipher them!

So does that say that DWP will calculate them the way I have suggested? (Sorry for being dumb! ��)

My reading is that if there is no discernible cycle the default is average over. 5 week period. However it is for the DM to decide so you cannot be certain how it will be done.

A DM could take your normal hours of work as 10 with the other weeks being abnormal. In that case I think you will not be entitled to receive payment of ESA in those weeks.

poppy12345

calcotti wrote: »

My reading is that if there is no discernible cycle the default is average over. 5 week period. However it is for the DM to decide so you cannot be certain how it will be done.

That's how i read it too. OP, you will of course need to get permission from DWP before starting the permitted work.

Vicki1980

Thank you both for your replies.

So I should be ok then and within the rules?

I didn’t know I had to wait for their permission before I started work? The PW1 form states “if you have already started work.......” ??

calcotti

Been thinking about this a bit more.
What I have posted above refers only to calculation of the hours of work.
For the earnings limit I think there is no averaging, each week is taken on a week by week basis so if you are paid weekly any week in which you exceed the limit will exclude payment of ESA.
If you are paid monthly this has to be converted to a weekly amount, usually this is done by taking the month x 12 / 52.

Confess I am finding it pretty confusing too.

If anyone reading this has actual experience that would be really helpful!

poppy12345

Vicki1980 wrote: »

Thank you both for your replies.

So I should be ok then and within the rules?

I didn’t know I had to wait for their permission before I started work? The PW1 form states “if you have already started work.......” ??

No, that will be up to a decision maker to decide.



No, you need to get permission before starting permitted work.

Copied from this link. If you are considering starting permitted work you must tell the DWP or Jobcentre Plus and get their approval.
https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Permitted-Work-Rules

calcotti

Vicki1980 wrote: »

Thank you both for your replies.

So I should be ok then and within the rules?

I didn’t know I had to wait for their permission before I started work? The PW1 form states “if you have already started work.......” ??

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employment-and-support-allowance-permitted-work-form
Says “Use this form to tell us if you are working, or want to work, while claiming Employment and Support Allowance (ESA).”
That certainly suggests that the DWP recognise that some people may have started work before telling them.

It is often said that you must tell DWP before starting work (in the same way that it is often said that you must tell them before going abroad). I don’t think the legislation requires this. You are not entitled to be paid ESA if you are outside the rules but telling them is not, to the best of my knowledge, part of the rules - although, obviously, having their agreement in advance avoids the risk of disagreement.

I’m sure this has been discussed before but I haven’t got the energy to look at the moment.

Vicki1980

Thank you both again.

It is very confusing! I agree and yes somebody who has any actual experience of fluctuating hours/earnings whilst on ESA would be most useful right now!

bigbill

ESA is a weekly benefit, the ESA permitted work rules allow up to 16 hours weekly and a maximum weekly earnings amount.

From your estimate of work in post No1 I would say with confidence that you would be overpaid ESA for week no 2 and 3 due to the hours worked.