Unfair Mooring fee loss.

Brit27

My father left us his old yacht in his will two years ago, with the intention that my siblings and I used it as a family boat, where we could spend time together at weekends. He left an amount of money in an account which could be used to maintain and moor it. As I was the executor of his will, I was primarily in charge of it's upkeep.
I moved the yacht to a mooring which was at a great location and served it's purpose well, it wasn't cheap as I paid £1250 for the first part year, a full year was £1800. We moved to the mooring at the end of June 2017, the year's term ended on 31st March 2018. The owner of the Moorings (the pier master) emailed me at the beginning of March to let me know that the new term fee (2018-2019) was due, this took me by surprise as I assumed the new term began on 1st April. I paid for two months £300, but was then contacted at the beginning of April stating that the next payment was overdue, so I mailed back explaining that I had paid for two months, this he agreed with.
The following month I paid for the next two months only to be met with another mail the following month asking for the next payment ! As the 'yacht account' had enough to pay off the £1200 I did so, mostly to get the pier master off of my back.


Come September the yacht was looking very tired, so I found a different mooring where she could be lifted out for the winter and some much needed maintenance be carried out. I informed the pier master mid September that we would be moving the yacht elsewhere and that I would like a refund for the months that we would not be needing the mooring, Oct- March 31st. The reply I received asked which weekend we would be moving, so I replied that it would be the last weekend of the month, there wasn't any mention of a refund in his email.
When we moved the yacht the pier master was actually present, he smiled and took the mooring gate key from us, nothing else was said and as he was with two other people, I never approached him over the refund.


I must state that the cost of moving the yacht to a different location cost just over £700, so I had budgeted for the refund to cover this.


I emailed the Pier Master on the Monday after we moved the yacht reminding him of the refund but never received a response. I then typed out a letter and sent it recorded delivery as a gentle reminder of the refund. I have now received an email response that states that ''
In reply to your letter of the 10th October 2018


I attach copy of your signed mooring agreement






Regretfully You will see that " No refunds given on any mooring fees"


and "No refunds on any moorings" are clearly stated.


He attached a copy of an agreement that I signed in June 2017, which did infact state the above. It also says that '' The mooring company is to provide a berth alongside to 31st march 2018 annually thereafter or daily rate''


I don't have a copy of this agreement but it clearly has my signature on it, along with my address and contact details, including the details of the yacht. I can see that legally I haven't a leg to stand on and have to accept that I signed this agreement and yet didn't make a copy of it. I am just really struggling with the fact that he never reminded me of this agreement when I informed that the yacht would be moving in my email mid September. If he had so have done, I could have stayed on his moorings until next year and not lost the £800.


I haven't responded to his email as I'm not really sure how to ? Do I grovel , do I get angry and ask why he didn't remind me of the terms on the agreement when he had over two weeks to do so ?
I am at a loss and am not sure I can let the family know how I have managed to lose such an amount of Dad's money.


Any advice (apart from the obvious that my partner has already told me !) that can help me deal with my ineptitude would be grateful.

marliepanda

Getting angry will probably get you nowhere. He doesn’t have to remind you of your legal obligations if you have signed a contract to that affect. You had already paid, so he didn’t need to say ‘well you still need to pay for the rest of your term’ he would have had to have said ‘that’s fine but I won’t be refunding you’ but he doesn’t need to tell you that.

I always go the honey rather than vinegar route.

baza52

is this the same boat your father sold you for £1 before his death?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5488915/fathers-debts-how-to-deal-with-them

marliepanda

baza52 wrote: »

is this the same boat your father sold you for £1 before his death?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5488915/fathers-debts-how-to-deal-with-them

Good catch.

Yeah that moorings money needed to go to paying his debts, how did you hide that from his creditors.

You also seemed to mess the marina guy about with the houseboat mooring debt so yeah I can see why a) he didn’t bother to tell you about the contract because you guys messed him about already and b) he’s not gonna be nice and let you off with any money.

takman

From reading the other thread i thought i should quote this before it suddenly disappears when the OP comes back.

Brit27 wrote: »

My father left us his old yacht in his will two years ago, with the intention that my siblings and I used it as a family boat, where we could spend time together at weekends. He left an amount of money in an account which could be used to maintain and moor it. As I was the executor of his will, I was primarily in charge of it's upkeep.
I moved the yacht to a mooring which was at a great location and served it's purpose well, it wasn't cheap as I paid £1250 for the first part year, a full year was £1800. We moved to the mooring at the end of June 2017, the year's term ended on 31st March 2018. The owner of the Moorings (the pier master) emailed me at the beginning of March to let me know that the new term fee (2018-2019) was due, this took me by surprise as I assumed the new term began on 1st April. I paid for two months £300, but was then contacted at the beginning of April stating that the next payment was overdue, so I mailed back explaining that I had paid for two months, this he agreed with.
The following month I paid for the next two months only to be met with another mail the following month asking for the next payment ! As the 'yacht account' had enough to pay off the £1200 I did so, mostly to get the pier master off of my back.


Come September the yacht was looking very tired, so I found a different mooring where she could be lifted out for the winter and some much needed maintenance be carried out. I informed the pier master mid September that we would be moving the yacht elsewhere and that I would like a refund for the months that we would not be needing the mooring, Oct- March 31st. The reply I received asked which weekend we would be moving, so I replied that it would be the last weekend of the month, there wasn't any mention of a refund in his email.
When we moved the yacht the pier master was actually present, he smiled and took the mooring gate key from us, nothing else was said and as he was with two other people, I never approached him over the refund.


I must state that the cost of moving the yacht to a different location cost just over £700, so I had budgeted for the refund to cover this.


I emailed the Pier Master on the Monday after we moved the yacht reminding him of the refund but never received a response. I then typed out a letter and sent it recorded delivery as a gentle reminder of the refund. I have now received an email response that states that ''
In reply to your letter of the 10th October 2018


I attach copy of your signed mooring agreement






Regretfully You will see that " No refunds given on any mooring fees"


and "No refunds on any moorings" are clearly stated.


He attached a copy of an agreement that I signed in June 2017, which did infact state the above. It also says that '' The mooring company is to provide a berth alongside to 31st march 2018 annually thereafter or daily rate''


I don't have a copy of this agreement but it clearly has my signature on it, along with my address and contact details, including the details of the yacht. I can see that legally I haven't a leg to stand on and have to accept that I signed this agreement and yet didn't make a copy of it. I am just really struggling with the fact that he never reminded me of this agreement when I informed that the yacht would be moving in my email mid September. If he had so have done, I could have stayed on his moorings until next year and not lost the £800.


I haven't responded to his email as I'm not really sure how to ? Do I grovel , do I get angry and ask why he didn't remind me of the terms on the agreement when he had over two weeks to do so ?
I am at a loss and am not sure I can let the family know how I have managed to lose such an amount of Dad's money.


Any advice (apart from the obvious that my partner has already told me !) that can help me deal with my ineptitude would be grateful.

Brit27

Same boat , different moorings. Two separate sols are dealing with his estate, one for the still ongoing industrial claim regarding asbestosis and the other the grant of probate and are now acting as power of attorney. The yacht funds were in a joint account set up by my father long before his death, the solicitor was made aware of this and assured me that I could use it. As his estate was insolvent any reward from the asbestos claim will go to his creditors.

Back to my original post, I will email the pm asking for his reasons for not reminding me of the wording in the agreement before I moved the yacht. I'm not expecting a reply and remain embarrassed for my lack of attention.

marliepanda

Brit27 wrote: »

Same boat , different moorings. Two separate sols are dealing with his estate, one for the still ongoing industrial claim regarding asbestosis and the other the grant of probate and are now acting as power of attorney. The yacht funds were in a joint account set up by my father long before his death, the solicitor was made aware of this and assured me that I could use it. As his estate was insolvent any reward from the asbestos claim will go to his creditors.

Back to my original post, I will email the pm asking for his reasons for not reminding me of the wording in the agreement before I moved the yacht. I'm not expecting a reply and remain embarrassed for my lack of attention.

So youre not wasting your dads money, youre wasting your own money. With all due respect, your dad didnt have any money to lose.

You were very lucky to not have the yacht used as part of his estate considering he sold it to you for £1 2 months after being diagnosed with cancer.

He probably didn't remind you because he was under no obligation to.

Brit27

marliepanda wrote: »

So youre not wasting your dads money, youre wasting your own money. With all due respect, your dad didnt have any money to lose.

You were very lucky to not have the yacht used as part of his estate considering he sold it to you for £1 2 months after being diagnosed with cancer.

He probably didn't remind you because he was under no obligation to.

At the time I didn't consider myself lucky that my father lost 12 possible years of his life due to cancer caused by a former employers negligence. It was his wishes that I look after the yacht, I was not about to deny him this . All was openly declared to the solicitor, I did not hold anything back and was prepared to lose both the yacht and joint account .

Thank you for your constructive post.

bris

If there is a contract that states you can get a refund if you leave early then you are due a refund. If there isn't then you have no rights to a refund as you have a service there whether you use it or not.


We need to know the details of the contract before you can be given further advice.

Les79

baza52 wrote: »

is this the same boat your father sold you for £1 before his death?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5488915/fathers-debts-how-to-deal-with-them

I'm no expert, but would this not potentially be considered an inheritance tax fraud by the HMRC (depending on the sum of assets)? Knowing that you are terminally ill but selling certain items for nominal amounts (£1) to family members. It strikes me as odd that it wasn't GIFTED as well, though again maybe there are more intricate rules surrounding it all.

baza52

Les79 wrote: »

I'm no expert, but would this not potentially be considered an inheritance tax fraud by the HMRC (depending on the sum of assets)? Knowing that you are terminally ill but selling certain items for nominal amounts (£1) to family members. It strikes me as odd that it wasn't GIFTED as well, though again maybe there are more intricate rules surrounding it all.

The fact that £15k of his fathers money was in a joint account with the son also smacks of hiding capital prior to the death.
Im sorry for your loss OP but you have to admit it all seems a bit too convenient when he had large debts.
The fact your saying the yacht was left to you and your siblings when you had said he sold it to YOU months ago also seems a bit odd.
How could you confuse the 2?