Question about forced smart metre & utility bills in permanent park home

smellymel74

hi all, and thanks in advance for your help here - the forum super brains always come through!

my mum lives on a park home with permanent residency (ie: not a holiday home). most of the residents are over 60 (many well into their 70s & 80s). mum pays monthly ground rent plus (as per her contract) her gas/elec to the site owner and has a gas/elec metre that's read monthly by a member of the park management. her water is paid direct to united utilities and is not metred. there are 62 homes on the park. everyone on the park has received a letter from the park owner saying he's contracted out a company called Blue Castle (BC) to manage their utility bills from next month.

The letter also says A) the site owner has passed on residents' details to BC for them to set up their accounts (possible GDPR issue there i wonder?), that as part of this all residents must have smart metres fitted, C) that residents must pay for their utilities in advance and keep their account in credit or risk being cut off, and D) that each household will now be charged £200+VAT/year for an 'administration fee' (ie: there's no charge for installing the smart metre though). The smart meter in question isn't even that smart - residents will not have a screen in their home, only a metre attached to their supply to send readings direct to BC; residents who actually want to see their usage will have to look at their account online [this has frightened a lot of the elderly residents including my mum as she's clueless online] or phone up. Maybe i'm a cynic but this all sounds very dodgy to me!

can anyone with knowledge of park home law answer the following questions please?

* can the park owner force (not-so) smart metres upon all residents? mum's contract suggests the agreement for providing and paying utilities is between her and the park owner, yet the metre would send the reading directly to BC and she'd pay BC not the site owner. Plus i thought smart metres were optional? (maybe not for those renting the ground their park home is on tho?). when i questioned this, i was told from 2020 'everyone has to have smart metres fitted'.

* can BC charge £200+VAT? my understanding is that utility providers on park homes cannot profit from the resale of elec and water (but not gas if it's LPG) but that they can charge a 'reasonable' admin fee - that's fine but £200+VAT doesn't seem reasonable to me given there will be less work involved than currently as the metre sends the reading directly to the provider (based on the 62 homes on the site, BC will be making almost £15K/year for administering the system).

* if all residents do have to have smart metres fitted and pay BC rather than the site owner (or rather than united utilities in the case of their water), can residents be forced to pay upfront and to keep their account in credit? this sounds like a pre-payment option (though that's not the words the letter uses) and i know they're often the most expensive, plus mum (who is 73 and has heart and kidney failure and diabetes) is scared she would be cut off if she pre-paid one month but what she paid ends up not being enough for that month

sorry for the lengthy question; it's complicated! hopefully someone can offer us some advice? thanks

Xbigman

These sites are unregulated so the only thing that matters is what the contract says. It might say a number of different things about the tenant/landowner relationship for the supply of electricity but its likely that the landowner can contract that out to a third party without any breach of contract.
This is a complex situation and I'd suggest you start by finding out what unit rates the new company will charge so you can see just what the new costs will be. If they look unacceptable you need to talk to citizens advice and see if they can help. If they can't help it might need a lawyer to interpret the contract for you. I'd also check just how secure the tenancy is because causing a massive fuss over a few hundred pounds might not be advisable.


Darren

smellymel74

Xbigman wrote: »

I'd suggest you start by finding out what unit rates the new company will charge so you can see just what the new costs will be

thanks for your reply Darren. Unfortunately Blue Castle can't say yet what the new unit price will be - they haven't yet started looking for or negotiating with any supplier as they're still at the stage of setting up accounts for residents.

I thought (hoped!) there was at least some regulation for park homes. It's not the subcontracting out that residents are concerned about I think, or even the installing of smart metres per se. It's whether these can be forced upon them (and they've been told they can and they wont get a paper bill from then on), whether the £200+VAT/year per household is reasonable as an admin fee, and whether they can be forced to pay upfront for their utilities. It all seems rather draconian and intimidating.

Cardew

With apartments in a building, it is 'set in stone' that a landlord cannot make a profit from supplied energy - i.e electricity/gas. This from Citizens Advice:

How much your landlord can charge

Your landlord can only charge you for:

• the units of energy you've used (for example, the kilowatt hours you've used for electricity)
• your share of the standing charge (a flat fee charged on every energy contract)
• the VAT owed (5% for energy)

This is called the ‘maximum resale price’ - your landlord can’t charge you more than this.
If your home doesn’t have an energy meter that records how much energy you’ve used, your landlord must estimate as accurately as possible how much you should pay. However, it’s rare that a home won’t have its own meter.

This article implies that the same principle applies to park homes:


https://www.parkhomemagazine.co.uk/advice/utility-charges-on-residential-park-homes/


That article gives a solicitor's phone number for advice.

Raxiel

It seems that the main issue is the service charge.
The fact the meters are 'smart' doesn't really come into it other than the fact they won't have to send readers round (making that £200 a little harder to justify of course). There may not be an in-home display, but the meters themselves will still have screens that display their reading if a resident wants to check that without contacting the company online or on the phone. Presumably that is no different to the current situation.


Is there any sort of residents association that can put pressure on the managing agent to make sure they get a good deal?

wavelets

smellymel74 wrote: »

hi all, and thanks in advance for your help here - the forum super brains always come through!

my mum lives on a park home with permanent residency (ie: not a holiday home). most of the residents are over 60 (many well into their 70s & 80s). mum pays monthly ground rent plus (as per her contract) her gas/elec to the site owner and has a gas/elec metre that's read monthly by a member of the park management. her water is paid direct to united utilities and is not metred. there are 62 homes on the park. everyone on the park has received a letter from the park owner saying he's contracted out a company called Blue Castle (BC) to manage their utility bills from next month.

The letter also says A) the site owner has passed on residents' details to BC for them to set up their accounts (possible GDPR issue there i wonder?), that as part of this all residents must have smart metres fitted, C) that residents must pay for their utilities in advance and keep their account in credit or risk being cut off, and D) that each household will now be charged £200+VAT/year for an 'administration fee' (ie: there's no charge for installing the smart metre though). The smart meter in question isn't even that smart - residents will not have a screen in their home, only a metre attached to their supply to send readings direct to BC; residents who actually want to see their usage will have to look at their account online [this has frightened a lot of the elderly residents including my mum as she's clueless online] or phone up. Maybe i'm a cynic but this all sounds very dodgy to me!

can anyone with knowledge of park home law answer the following questions please?

* can the park owner force (not-so) smart metres upon all residents? mum's contract suggests the agreement for providing and paying utilities is between her and the park owner, yet the metre would send the reading directly to BC and she'd pay BC not the site owner. Plus i thought smart metres were optional? (maybe not for those renting the ground their park home is on tho?). when i questioned this, i was told from 2020 'everyone has to have smart metres fitted'.

* can BC charge £200+VAT? my understanding is that utility providers on park homes cannot profit from the resale of elec and water (but not gas if it's LPG) but that they can charge a 'reasonable' admin fee - that's fine but £200+VAT doesn't seem reasonable to me given there will be less work involved than currently as the metre sends the reading directly to the provider (based on the 62 homes on the site, BC will be making almost £15K/year for administering the system).

* if all residents do have to have smart metres fitted and pay BC rather than the site owner (or rather than united utilities in the case of their water), can residents be forced to pay upfront and to keep their account in credit? this sounds like a pre-payment option (though that's not the words the letter uses) and i know they're often the most expensive, plus mum (who is 73 and has heart and kidney failure and diabetes) is scared she would be cut off if she pre-paid one month but what she paid ends up not being enough for that month

sorry for the lengthy question; it's complicated! hopefully someone can offer us some advice? thanks

Sorry, but this is not the place to seek legal advice. See a solicitor for that.

But as you are probably aware, this is the poark owners land and they can do almost anything they want. You either agree to the terms or don't use their park.

I think you will find most parks sell their electricity in a similar way. i.e. the park buys it and sells it to it's users usually via private meters. If they want smart sub-meters, so be it.

You are right that sellers of electricity cannot make a profit from that sale without a licence. I see no evidence the park are seeking to make a profit from re-selling electricity. You say they have not yet set the price, as they are still in negotiations with a supplier themselves.

I'm not sure why you think it is dodgy the park owner is able to obtain their meter readings online, rather than having to go to each meter manually to read it (and so bill thye residents accordingly)

If you don't like the park's other fees, you always have the option to look elsewhere.

How does your mother pay for her gas bottles? Does she pay on delivery before she uses any of the gas? Or does she only pay after she has emptied the bottle?
Why should payment for electricty supplied by the park be any different?

Edit: just noticed. A oldie retuning. Another refugee from the parking ticket sub-board.;)

smellymel74

Raxiel wrote: »

Is there any sort of residents association that can put pressure on the managing agent to make sure they get a good deal?

Thanks for the helpful reply And yes, you're right - it's not the smart metres themselves that my mum or the other residents are concerned about. Rather, it's the £200+VAT a year admin fee as it seems excessive given that they are not supposed to profit for the re-sale, and the fact they have to pay upfront for their energy and always remain in credit, when this has never been the case before.

I've suggested they set up resident's committee as they don't have one at present, so we'll see.

smellymel74

wavelets wrote: »

Sorry, but this is not the place to seek legal advice. See a solicitor for that.

But as you are probably aware, this is the poark owners land and they can do almost anything they want. You either agree to the terms or don't use their park.

I think you will find most parks sell their electricity in a similar way. i.e. the park buys it and sells it to it's users usually via private meters. If they want smart sub-meters, so be it.

You are right that sellers of electricity cannot make a profit from that sale without a licence. I see no evidence the park are seeking to make a profit from re-selling electricity. You say they have not yet set the price, as they are still in negotiations with a supplier themselves.

I'm not sure why you think it is dodgy the park owner is able to obtain their meter readings online, rather than having to go to each meter manually to read it (and so bill thye residents accordingly)

If you don't like the park's other fees, you always have the option to look elsewhere.

How does your mother pay for her gas bottles? Does she pay on delivery before she uses any of the gas? Or does she only pay after she has emptied the bottle?
Why should payment for electricty supplied by the park be any different?

Edit: just noticed. A oldie retuning. Another refugee from the parking ticket sub-board.;)

I'm just asking for some help and advice; thought that's what this forum was for?? shame as everyone is usually so nice.

You don't seem to understand my point that a £200+VAT charge per year per property plus paying in advance for energy could well amount to profiting from the re-sale. That point stands whether or not a price per unit has yet been negotiated, as the admin fee is part of the package. Blue Castle isn't doing this out of the goodness of their heart (they're a business after all, and don't have any other contracts with permanent park homes so i suspect they may not be aware of the legal ramifications of their usual business model). The residents already pay an admin fee for such things through their pitch fee, so what's being suggested amounts to an additional charge (which they had neither budgeted for nor expected), and it seems a lot given this and the fact it'll presumably cost less to have metre readings sent directly to a company rather than manually as is done now.

Plus paying upfront for utilities that the park owner pays for later, once used, means the money is in his bank account accruing profit before the residents have used it. It may not be a lot of money - in real terms, or to you - but it is to my mum and many of the other residents, and doubly so when multiplied by all the homes on the park.

I appreciate your input (and you are correct about the legal advice; i intend to do just that but was requesting some advice to fully arm myself before i take this step). However if you can't be polite (the unprovoked 'oldie' jibe) and have nothing to offer beyond saying 'move if you're not happy', then please take your keyboard warrior antics elsewhere and leave the nice people on here to do what they do best.

smellymel74

Cardew wrote: »

This article implies that the same principle applies to park homes:


https://www.parkhomemagazine.co.uk/advice/utility-charges-on-residential-park-homes/


That article gives a solicitor's phone number for advice.

That's brilliant - thanks for the help