New smart heating using economy 7

ScottDann

Hi everyone! This is my first post on this forum!

I have a question regarding my economy 7.

We live in a converted oast house with no gas at the property.
Last year we managed to run up a bill of nearly £1800 because to heat the house we had 8 storage heaters along with a 3kw immersion heater for hot water.

This year it has now changed somewhat.

Our landlord has had our heaters changed to these verismart electric ceramic heaters that can control themselves to stay at a fixed temperature setting (say 21 degrees c and then you leave it) and removing the storage heater timeclock. The New heaters will click on and off 24hours a day depending on the temperature in the house.

With this in mind would it be cheaper to come away from the economy 7 as the heating will activate all day, or will there still be a greater demand for heat at night and therefore still cost effective?

Has anyone else changed from storage heating to smart heaters? How has it fared for you?

Many thanks guys hope to hear back!

Robin9

Have you actual meter readings before and after these heaters were changed ?

EachPenny

ScottDann wrote: »

Hi everyone! This is my first post on this forum!

I have a question regarding my economy 7.

We live in a converted oast house with no gas at the property.
Last year we managed to run up a bill of nearly £1800 because to heat the house we had 8 storage heaters along with a 3kw immersion heater for hot water.

This year it has now changed somewhat.

Our landlord has had our heaters changed to these verismart electric ceramic heaters that can control themselves to stay at a fixed temperature setting (say 21 degrees c and then you leave it) and removing the storage heater timeclock. The New heaters will click on and off 24hours a day depending on the temperature in the house.

With this in mind would it be cheaper to come away from the economy 7 as the heating will activate all day, or will there still be a greater demand for heat at night and therefore still cost effective?

Has anyone else changed from storage heating to smart heaters? How has it fared for you?

Many thanks guys hope to hear back!

The question is almost certainly going to be how much more than £1800 will you be paying to heat your home this year having had storage heaters working on cheap rate electricity replaced by wizzy technology which only produces heat in the daytime (when most people need it) by consuming more expensive normal rate electricity.

Personally I would not (yet) ditch E7. I would experiment with maximising the amount of heat you can put into the structure of the building (and your hot water tank) during the night (E7 hours), and hope that you have a sufficiently high level of insulation (of the building) to retain most of that heat during the day.

Take your own meter readings on a regular basis (at least every couple of days) and set up a spreadsheet so you can monitor how much electricity you are using night and day and how much it is costing you. You can also include on the spreadsheet calculations of how much it would cost if you were on a non-E7 tariff, and perhaps with a different supplier.

As you gather data you'll see a picture emerge, if you can see clearly that the E7 tariff is more expensive, that will tell you that you need to change. If some days you 'win' and some days you 'lose' then have a think about trying to maximise night time consumption and minimise day time.

Don't rely on a 'smart' meter to do this for you as you need to have a much more detailed understanding of the costs, not just of what you are paying, but also what you might pay on other tariffs.

System

Edit:

I see that these radiators do have the potential for savings through zoning. I was confused by the OP’s reference to a constant 21C temperature.

Quote: Thanks to the easy to use controls and accurate digital thermostat you will be able to set programmes that are specific to each room within your house. That makes for potential savings by only heating rooms such as your bedrooms to your comfort temperature when you occupy them and using the setback temperature when the rooms are not in use. You can eliminate waste heating from your home, reducing the electric consumption of your home. Unquote

OP - you need to set up zoning with set periods of use/target temperatures to get usage costs down.

PS Do not be tempted to turn off all heating in rooms not used. You will get condensation and mould. It usually starts around window frames. I used a setback temperature of 13C with Evohome zoning.

ScottDann

We are still waiting for the landlords electrician to remove the time clock and change the 20amp switches to 13amp switched spurs, so currently the heaters aren't in use.

So are we thinking set the temperature higher overnight to say 24 degrees then leave it at maybe 20 through the day?

We are kind of hoping the tea caddy effect will happen in time (where there is enough heat stored in the house to only require small top ups during the day.

All our rooms are in use (The spare room is being set up as a nursery for our new arrival so we are getting the room well ventilated and warmed ready for her) so we don't have any mould issues in any part of our house. Storage heaters also helped keep the humidity out.

The only upside is that heaters are only 2kw each rather than the 6kw ancient heaters we had before.

The landlords grandmother used to live here and money wasn't really an issue for them. So the immersion heater was on 24hours a day and the Storage heaters were cranked up to the max. Since we've been here we've installed a programmer for the immersion heater and towel rail and now we have a lower wattage heat system so hopefully we'll see the difference over winter.

Robin9

Yes do experiment but keep on reading those meters - you may find 24 deg in a bedroom a bit too warm.

The best of luck.

Owain_Moneysaver

ScottDann wrote: »

now we have a lower wattage heat system so hopefully we'll see the difference over winter.

Your house will still need the same amount of heat as before. The only difference is that on peak rate electricity you will be paying approximately three times the price.

wavelets

ScottDann wrote: »

Hi everyone! This is my first post on this forum!

I have a question regarding my economy 7.

We live in a converted oast house with no gas at the property.
Last year we managed to run up a bill of nearly £1800 because to heat the house we had 8 storage heaters along with a 3kw immersion heater for hot water.

This year it has now changed somewhat.

Our landlord has had our heaters changed to these verismart electric ceramic heaters that can control themselves to stay at a fixed temperature setting (say 21 degrees c and then you leave it) and removing the storage heater timeclock. The New heaters will click on and off 24hours a day depending on the temperature in the house.

With this in mind would it be cheaper to come away from the economy 7 as the heating will activate all day, or will there still be a greater demand for heat at night and therefore still cost effective?

Has anyone else changed from storage heating to smart heaters? How has it fared for you?

Many thanks guys hope to hear back!

Consult a comparison site, using you new anticipated annual consumption figures, to find out.

If it cost you £1800 last year when presumably most of the electricity was purchased at low rate being typically >50% less than normal rate electricity, if you continue to use the same electricity to produce the same heat but now at full normal rate, (and allowing for a general increase in electricity cost over the past 12 months) you need to be budgetting for £3600pa or more :eek:

You sound like you have such a considerate and caring landlord...:cool:

System

ScottDann wrote: »

We are still waiting for the landlords electrician to remove the time clock and change the 20amp switches to 13amp switched spurs, so currently the heaters aren't in use.

So are we thinking set the temperature higher overnight to say 24 degrees then leave it at maybe 20 through the day?

We are kind of hoping the tea caddy effect will happen in time (where there is enough heat stored in the house to only require small top ups during the day.

All our rooms are in use (The spare room is being set up as a nursery for our new arrival so we are getting the room well ventilated and warmed ready for her) so we don't have any mould issues in any part of our house. Storage heaters also helped keep the humidity out.

The only upside is that heaters are only 2kw each rather than the 6kw ancient heaters we had before.

The landlords grandmother used to live here and money wasn't really an issue for them. So the immersion heater was on 24hours a day and the Storage heaters were cranked up to the max. Since we've been here we've installed a programmer for the immersion heater and towel rail and now we have a lower wattage heat system so hopefully we'll see the difference over winter.

24C overnight! It doesn’t work that way. To maintain 24C overnight will require a LOT of energy as the OAT will be low. It is also too high a temperature to sleep comfortably. The logic behind zoning is that you only heat the rooms in use to a comfortable temperature when you are in those rooms. For example, with Evohome zoning, we had our bedroom and bathroom at 21C at wake up and the 18C for the rest of the day, followed by an hour at 20C before bed. The bedroom radiator was turned down, along with the rest of house, overnight.

If you want a constant temperature throughout the day, then the rate of heat being generated by your heating system has to equal the heat that is being lost through the fabric of the house. Trying to run the house like a great big storage heater will just add to your costs. Your bill of £1800 per year suggests that your insulation etc may not be as good as it could be.

jk0

wavelets wrote: »

You sound like you have such a considerate and caring landlord...:cool:

I'm wondering if o/p complained to landlord about the previous heating system. £1800 doesn't sound bad for 8 storage heaters to me. Must be a fairly large house.

EachPenny

Hengus wrote: »

24C overnight! It doesn’t work that way. To maintain 24C overnight will require a LOT of energy as the OAT will be low. It is also too high a temperature to sleep comfortably. The logic behind zoning is that you only heat the rooms in use to a comfortable temperature when you are in those rooms. For example, with Evohome zoning, we had our bedroom and bathroom at 21C at wake up and the 18C for the rest of the day, followed by an hour at 20C before bed. The bedroom radiator was turned down, along with the rest of house, overnight.

If you want a constant temperature throughout the day, then the rate of heat being generated by your heating system has to equal the heat that is being lost through the fabric of the house. Trying to run the house like a great big storage heater will just add to your costs. Your bill of £1800 per year suggests that your insulation etc may not be as good as it could be.

But if you have electric only heating and an E7/E10 tariff then you need to take into account the time periods of lower cost of heating, not just the times of day you want to use the rooms. E.g. If you've allowed your lounge to drop to 16 degrees overnight, then whatever time of day you start using the lounge you'll need to use energy just to get back up to 20 degrees (say) on top of the energy requirement to counteract heat losses. What I'm saying is it is likely to be better to take the room back up to the desired temperature (just) before the end of E7 hours than it is to wait until just after E7 hours.

There will be a sweet spot between using cheaper E7 electricity to replace the overnight loses vs incurring a 'penalty' of a slightly higher rate of loss during the end of E7 hours and the time you actually wanted the room to be warmer.

With a baby on the way the OP's daily routine is going to be all over the place, possibly with hours in front of the TV in the lounge in the middle of the night trying to get the little one to sleep (hopefully not too many hours like that ) so adopting the zonal approach is going to be a tough challenge.

I agree though, 24 degrees would be too hot for most people, and extra care with room temps needs to be taken when there is a baby around.