Numerous NCP PCNs

charfreest

Hi,

I really hope someone can give me some advice. A few months ago a council car park was taken over by NCP.
When the car park was council owned it was free to park from 6pm until 8am the next morning. The driver in question always made sure they were in the gym before this time and left the car park before 8am so they never had to pay.

Initially the machines put in by NCP weren't working so the driver continued to park as they always had without paying. About 4 weeks ago they seemed to start working. Well... kind of...

The first time the driver attempted to pay for parking was on a Saturday afternoon. When they entered the reg into the machine, they continued to try to make a payment but the machine continued to ask them to enter the reg over and over again. The signage gave no clear direction as to what to do in this case so they assumed the machine was broken.

On a separate Saturday they paid £2.50 at 7:50am and the ticket supplied took them up to 8am, just 10 minutes after they had arrived! There was no option to select another time duration which suggested to me that there was an error with the machines which meant they were overcharged.

Since all of this they have continued to park without paying. As they never received a ticket on their windscreen they assumed it was still free before 8am. However, yesterday the keeper received a PCN from 19th September, and today they have received one for the 20th. Concerned that they are going to receive one every day for the next 2 weeks which there is no way they can afford to pay.

When they received the initial one yesterday, they sent the templated email recommended by this forum. But, now they're thinking about asking NCP whether, if they pay the first ticket, they'll void any thereafter up until yesterday's date as the driver obviously wasn't aware of the new measures in place until yesterday. They obviously wouldn't have continued to do the same thing had they known.

Any advice you can give would be really helpful.

thanks

Fruitcake

Nothing you say to or ask from NCP will make any difference, and you may harm your case if you admit to certain things.

You have revealed the driver's identity several times in your post. Normally we recommend posters do not do this except in certain circumstances. It is always better to default to talking about The driver and The Keeper, who are different people.

What happened when you complained to the gym?

Do the council still own the car park as they are not allowed to operate it as if it is privately owned.

Have you complained to your MP yet, and the MP where the car park is located if different?

charfreest

Hi,

thanks for your reply. The driver hasn't yet complained to the gym. Is that worth doing as they do not own the car park. It is part of a retail area.

The council no longer own the car park and the driver hasn't complained to our MP yet. Again, is that worth doing?

The driver is unsure whether to continue to appeal each ticket separately?

thanks

Redx

the driver should not be doing anything at all

the KEEPER is receiving the postal pcn,s and unfortunately that same KEEPER is going to have to appeal each and every one, separately (NCP wont be interested in anything you have to say on this matter)

edit your posts above as anything that happened SINCE the incidents has happened to the KEEPER, not the driver, so all postal notices came to the KEEPER

if the gym dont own the car park there is nothing they can do, its nothing to do with them, never was

complaining to your MP wont help with these tickets but you want things to change in the future and so you get that MP to back the new bill by Sir Greg Knight, the one aiming to put regulation into place

charfreest

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. The keeper is happy to continue to appeal each PCN, but how likely is it that all of the PCNs will be cancelled? What can the keeper expect?

thanks

Redx

it is very UNLIKELY


the keeper can expect rejections with popla codes


then it depends on how good the popla appeals are as to how the keeper will fare

charfreest

The issue here is that The Keeper doesn't have any evidence of buying a ticket. The reasoning they have is clarity of signage which, when the driver arrived in the car park, was not visible due to it being dark. Having looked at the car park today, the keeper has noticed that the signage has been updated since last checked.

I imagine that doesn't sound like a good poppa appeal for a case by case PCN, but these are a group of PCNs that al fall under the same umbrella.

Redx

agreed, it sounds like an expensive set of mistakes by the driver

a keeper can only win on inadequate signage , POFA2012 failures , NTK errors , BPA CoP failures, landowner authority , frustration of contract and similar legal arguments

if they have all their ducks in a row, the keeper cannot win (or is unlikely to win)

if the keeper loses and fails to pay, then a court case in your local county court is the final stage, within 6 years

fisherjim

One of your POPLA appeal points is of course signage, also consider the BPA code of practice in relation to this situation:


8.10 Where there is a change in the terms and conditions that
materially affects the motorist then you must make these
terms and conditions clear on your signage. Where such
changes impose liability where none previously existed then
you must consider a transition to allow regular visitors to the
site to adjust and familiarise themselves with the changes.
Best practice would be the installation of additional/
temporary signage at the entrance and throughout the site
making it clear that new terms and conditions apply. This will
ensure such that regular visitors who may be familiar with
the previous terms become aware of the new ones.


https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_January_2018.pdf




NCP aren't particularly litigious but they might try a punt with a quantity of charges to attempt to recover:


http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/National_Car_Parks.html

charfreest

How can the keeper prove inadequate signage without photos? Would evidence that the same has happened to other drivers be enough?

Is the safest solution for the driver to pay each PCN within the 14 day period? Otherwise the keeper could go through the popla process and have to pay the full £100 for each PCN as they will be out of the 14 day window?

charfreest

Thanks @Fisherjim. That's really helpful and good to know.