THIS is why I hate TFL!

Enterprise_1701C

martindow wrote: »

That's because most countries see public transport as a public service and don't expect it to break even or be profitable. Subsidise a bit more and fares are cheaper as in Paris and most of mainland Europe.

Public transport in this country is subsidised to the tune of about £5 billion

Mr_Singleton

Andy_L wrote: »

Why would someone commute that far for a min wage job? Are there none out in zone 6?

I think you need to take a step back and read what you’ve actually written. Are you expecting the lady that lives behind Oxford Street to pop out of her £20 million Mayfair house to do a spot of cleaning at Primark each evening?

Working in Zone 1 and having to live in the outer zones is a fact of life for numerous Londoners. Are you expecting them to sit on the dole paid for out of your taxes which won’t be spent on the NHS etc because TFL want to charge a punitive amount for ‘public transport’?

Mr_Singleton

NBLondon wrote: »

Yep - it defaults to quickest route including changes. But that's based on the published timetables and practical experience tells regular users that it won't necessarily be faster if traffic or something else makes one step a few minutes late or that it may be better to take a route which is 5 mins slower but less crowded. You can juggle the settings for things like avoid stairs or minimise changes but I reckon many/most users just accept the default and don't check.

TFL have made a big song and dance about giving developers access to the same data sets that it uses itself to find routes. Having looked at a few apps they ALL come out with a £1.50 charge for my original journey except for TFL who (appear) to contort the journey into a £3 one. I’ve tried to find a way of getting TFL to explain why this is but it’s like hitting your head apgainstba brick wall.

I suspect as you’ve alluded to that TFL’s Journey Planner is used in 99% of cases add to it people don’t check and just blindly follow and TFL is no doubt quite happy to look the other way as it’s an inaccuracy that is likely making substantial amounts of money.

Mr_Singleton

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Public transport in this country is subsidised to the tune of about £5 billion

It would seem that France subsidies come in at just over £11billion.

Interestingly a monthly all zones travelCard in London is almost 4 times the cost of an all zones Paris metro pass (Navigo)

Sadiq Khan repeatedly praises himself for his ‘affordable’ public transport!

NBLondon

Mr_Singleton wrote: »

I think you need to take a step back and read what you’ve actually written. Are you expecting the lady that lives behind Oxford Street to pop out of her £20 million Mayfair house to do a spot of cleaning at Primark each evening?

I think you need to stop ranting and think about what Andy asked... There are Primarks in Zone 6 as well - so it would be preferable to work at your local one if you could... If Primark Oxford Street can't get any cleaners (or rather XYZ Cleaning Services can't get anyone to work at the Oxford Street branch - they ought to be raising the pay offer. (Ever heard of a thing called London Weighting?). The reality is that a lot of the agencies use ZHC contracts and dodgy practices to cut the price by squeezing the workers. Those workers don't all live in Zone 6 - they might live in Zone 1 (in council estates, Peabody estates or tiny sub-divided houses up the Caledonian Road). Or they live in Zone 2 and 3 and take public transport - and this is where you're right... if they are paying £4.50 for a journey when it could be £2.50 - ten or twelve times a week - then that's a significant chunk of expense at NMW.

Working in Zone 1 and having to live in the outer zones is a fact of life for numerous Londoners. Are you expecting them to sit on the dole paid for out of your taxes which won’t be spent on the NHS etc because TFL want to charge a punitive amount for ‘public transport’?

It's a two way trade-off for many. The choice might be minimum wage job close to home vs better paid job in Zone 1 - and when you factor in the cost of commuting - it might be a close call.

t0rt0ise

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Public transport in this country is subsidised to the tune of about £5 billion

Unfortunately all money from government has been withdrawn from the london underground. It now, from this year, has to run on its own income.

Mr_Singleton

NBLondon wrote: »

I think you need to stop ranting and think about what Andy asked... There are Primarks in Zone 6 as well - so it would be preferable to work at your local one if you could... If Primark Oxford Street can't get any cleaners (or rather XYZ Cleaning Services can't get anyone to work at the Oxford Street branch - they ought to be raising the pay offer. (Ever heard of a thing called London Weighting?). The reality is that a lot of the agencies use ZHC contracts and dodgy practices to cut the price by squeezing the workers. Those workers don't all live in Zone 6 - they might live in Zone 1 (in council estates, Peabody estates or tiny sub-divided houses up the Caledonian Road). Or they live in Zone 2 and 3 and take public transport - and this is where you're right... if they are paying £4.50 for a journey when it could be £2.50 - ten or twelve times a week - then that's a significant chunk of expense at NMW.

It's a two way trade-off for many. The choice might be minimum wage job close to home vs better paid job in Zone 1 - and when you factor in the cost of commuting - it might be a close call.

A friend has summed up your post perfectly.... “how dare poor people clog up public transport. They should be made to walk. So what if they have to start at 3am should have worked harder at school and got more qualifications. As for for council estates in zone 1 what a disgrace”

The trade off won’t be between two jobs but no job and a life on benefits paid for through your taxes.

Mr_Singleton

t0rt0ise wrote: »

Unfortunately all money from government has been withdrawn from the london underground. It now, from this year, has to run on its own income.

As has been shown London is the most expensive city on the planet to commute in by a country mile... it’s hard to feel sorry for TFL especially when you find out that over 500 TFL employees earn over £100,000/year.

Andy_L

Mr_Singleton wrote: »

Working in Zone 1 and having to live in the outer zones is a fact of life for numerous Londoners. Are you expecting them to sit on the dole paid for out of your taxes which won’t be spent on the NHS etc because TFL want to charge a punitive amount for ‘public transport’?

It is & I did it myself. However is it a "fact of life" for NMW workers in zone 6? Look at the map, there are about 15 stops in zone 6 (one of which is Heathrow). My gut-feeling (so admittedly a good chance to to be wrong) is that they are living in from closer zones or being bussed in en-masse by minibus driving gang-masters rather than individually catching the tube from Epping, Upminster, Uxbridge or Ruislip.

Exile_geordie

NBLondon wrote: »

F
Which and why - that's a mystery...

I think its because if you went any other way apart from through zone 1 you would end up falling foul of the time given to be in the system with Oyster.



I came about this site a while back when trying to find out about different prices and its seems to be spot on https://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/