Paypal Disputes

SMF1

Hi All,

Please bear with me with this as it's a long one.

TL;dr: Money was taken out using my paypal account and it was not me who made the transactions. Paypal have conducted an investigation and are saying that at the time the transaction was made, it was made using my device. (They can tell this through either the IP or the devices ID).

On the 17th September, there was two transactions made to two different addresses using my paypal account. They were for considerably large sums of cash. I did not make these transactions.

One of the transactions was sent back to my paypal account, the largest one was not.

I contacted paypal about these transactions and informed them that it wasn't me who made these transactions, nor was it anyone in my household using my devices. They concluded that at the time the transactions were made it was using my device, they said they can tell this due to the unique addresses given off by these devices ans say that that is has regularly been using the paypal account since 2016. My paypal account was opened in 2013.

As far as I am concerned I know for sure it wasn't me who made the transactions and I obviously have some sort of virus issue but PayPal are not willing to refund this large sum of money to me, I have appealed their decision every day since and I'm getting no where.

In the mean time,I removed the the first transaction which had been refunded by the receipient back to my paypal and withdrew it to my bank account and I have removed my bank card/details from my paypal to stop any more money leaving the account.

It's causing me huge stress which is affecting my health and I'm so infuriated and lost. I don't know who to turn to next. The bank have refused to get involved and said it's a dispute between me and paypal due to paypals findings in their investigation.

What do I do please?

18cc

yes it is nothing to do with your bank.

are paypal members of the financial ombudsman scheme - they must be regulated by someone?

ask paypal for details of their complaints scheme

18cc

by the way, if it was done from your device id then you need to have a good think about how that could be done - it was either someone else using your device or a software virus logging into your paypal account and making the transfer or someone remotely controllinng your device or...

SnowTiger

The obvious starting point is to report it to Action Fraud. However, Action Fraud tends to be a black hole aimed at collecting statistics rather than crime solving.

To clarify: was the money taken directly from your PayPal account, or was it taken from your bank account using PayPal as a intermediary?

If the money was sitting in your PayPal account and taken directly from there, it appears you can take your complaint to the FOS.

If the money was taken from a debt card, chargeback is possible against PayPal.

If the money was taken from your bank account by direct debit you could try getting your money back using the direct debit guarantee.

However, as PayPal seems to have evidence your device was used to make the transactions, you'll probably struggle to win a case.

SMF1

18cc wrote: »

by the way, if it was done from your device id then you need to have a good think about how that could be done - it was either someone else using your device or a software virus logging into your paypal account and making the transfer or someone remotely controllinng your device or...

It is my understanding that such a virus exists. It was paypal who suggested that my device was infected. I asked them how they know it came from my device and they said because it has a unique address..i assumed they meant IP address but he went on to say that this device has been logging into and using paypal since 2016. Since I rarely ever use paypals website itself and only realls for ebay purchases I fail to see how this is accurate. I moved house at the start of the year, and obviously had to make arrangements to have fibre internet connected at the new house so surely my IP address changed during this process. I'm not 100% how IPs work.

SMF1

SnowTiger wrote: »

The obvious starting point is to report it to Action Fraud. However, Action Fraud tends to be a black hole aimed at collecting statistics rather than crime solving.

To clarify: was the money taken directly from your PayPal account, or was it taken from your bank account using PayPal as a intermediary?

If the money was sitting in your PayPal account and taken directly from there, it appears you can take your complaint to the FOS.

If the money was taken from a debt card, chargeback is possible against PayPal.

If the money was taken from your bank account by direct debit you could try getting your money back using the direct debit guarantee.

However, as PayPal seems to have evidence your device was used to make the transactions, you'll probably struggle to win a case.

My bank card is linked with my paypal account. The Hacker sent the money using my paypal account which had a balance of £0 so paypal automatically applies to the bank on file and it was deducted from my actual bank account on the 20th Sep. The initial paypal transaction was on the 17th Sep.

eskbanker

SMF1 wrote: »

I asked them how they know it came from my device and they said because it has a unique address..i assumed they meant IP address but he went on to say that this device has been logging into and using paypal since 2016. Since I rarely ever use paypals website itself and only realls for ebay purchases I fail to see how this is accurate. I moved house at the start of the year, and obviously had to make arrangements to have fibre internet connected at the new house so surely my IP address changed during this process. I'm not 100% how IPs work.

It's more likely to be the (fixed) MAC address rather than the variable IP address....

SMF1

I see. I'm not very well clued up with the finer details when it comes to things like that unfortunately. All I know for sure is that it wasn't me or anyone in the household and my device had been breached with some sort of virus and I'm $1000 out of pocket which is just shy of 800 quid. Paypal are not willing to budge and I don't know who to turn to next.

18cc

Every device in the world has a unique Mac ID believe it or not you wouldn't think it was possible but it is true

so basically the Mac ID of your device will have been logged by PayPal and that is what they mean nothing to do with the IP address which will change pretty much every time you connect to the internet

assuming they are right than that means definitely 100% the request to withdraw the cash came from your device y

you therefore need to think how that might happen

The money was taken by PayPal from your debit card you could therefore try arguing with your bank that this was not an authorised withdrawal it was not you and PayPal were not authorised to take the money

however I think you will find the terms and conditions you signed when you join the PayPal mean that Paypal are authorised to take the money

Your best bet is probably to go via the PayPal complaints procedure and say that you did not take the money and that their systems are wrong and if you get nowhere then take them to the Financial Ombudsman

SMF1

18cc wrote: »

Every device in the world has a unique Mac ID believe it or not you wouldn't think it was possible but it is true

so basically the Mac ID of your device will have been logged by PayPal and that is what they mean nothing to do with the IP address which will change pretty much every time you connect to the internet

assuming they are right than that means definitely 100% the request to withdraw the cash came from your device y

you therefore need to think how that might happen

The money was taken by PayPal from your debit card you could therefore try arguing with your bank that this was not an authorised withdrawal it was not you and PayPal were not authorised to take the money

however I think you will find the terms and conditions you signed when you join the PayPal mean that Paypal are authorised to take the money

Your best bet is probably to go via the PayPal complaints procedure and say that you did not take the money and that their systems are wrong and if you get nowhere then take them to the Financial Ombudsman

I know enough to know that when you say that 100% the request came from my device makes my heart sink because I know I've been hustled. It's clear to see the email that the payment was sent to is made up garbage. I have emailed it on the off chance they do reply to see what it was for but the description on the paypal receipt just says 'trade'.

What I'm astounded about is that i never use my paypal for anything other than cheap ebay purchases, never usually totalling more than £10. It really surprises me that paypal did not flag a transaction as large as a four figure sum as being out of the ordinary and did not seek confirmation that it was a genuine transaction by either phoning or texting me in the way that most other companies do. I've had to prove it was me making a transaction for as little as 20 quid here and there when paying with my debit card.

Uxb

Is the mac address they record that of the home router unit or is it of the specific computer/tablet whatever downstream of that?