Copper pipes buried in concrete screed leaking after radiator change - do we have a claim?

SweetReason

We have a 1970s house with concrete foundations, and the ground floor is screed on top of concrete. The central heating pipes for the downstairs radiators are buried in the screed.

We had two radiators in one room which were woefully underpowered, so we got them replaced by a plumber. A week later we realised the carpet was wet near one radiator. The plumber came back and started digging up the screed floor to expose the pipes. He found a leak, but every time he tried to cut the end of the pipe to repair it, the pipe cracked further down its length. He said the pipe was incredibly brittle, but with some care he managed to cut it without cracking it, and put in a replacement length of pipe to stop the leak.

He said it was potentially dodgy that the pipe was buried directly in the screed, which could have caused its deterioration, but also that in the 1970s there were many reports of bad batches of copper pipes being used in domestic installations, so that could also be the cause. He said to watch out for any other leaks, as this issue might be repeated in all the pipes in the floor!

Sure enough we then found another smaller leak by the second radiator in the room. Clearly the installation of the new radiators caused a small movement in the supply pipes which was enough to break them in their degraded condition. Our plumber recommended phoning our house insurance as it was likely that all our pipies downstairs needed to be replaced to be sure of no further leaks.

We phoned our house insurance (Esure) and had a very short conversation where we were told that they dont cover repairs to pipes, only to the damaged caused to other items by the escape of water, and also that the damage to the pipes was due to wear and tear, which is also not covered.

Our plumber reckoned that the pipes should never have been installed directly in the concrete screed, which means the damage is not really wear and tear. However there is also another exclusion in our policy which mentions they wont pay for anything damaged by a "gradual operating cause", which this appears to be, as the damaged to the pipes by corrosion caused by sitting directly in the screed will have occured over a very long time.

Have we got any chance of making any kind of claim to have all the pipes buring in screed replaced before they leak? Or should be give up and just pay for it out of our own pocket?

Many thanks.

csgohan4

if it's caused by over time, generally won't be covered, if you gave your details to the operator already at Esure, then your premiums will go up next year as this has been reported as a possible claim

Chickenlips

Typically, your policy will not cover pipe repairs or replacements- only the resultant damage from an escape of water.

Your policy may have cover for trace and access, I.e. the cost of sourcing the leak. As well as the making good of any digging. The typical excess for an escape of water claim is £250. For each new leak, it would be a new claim (unless your insurers are feeling generous and log it as one claim with multiple excesses). The impact on your premiums means this would not likely be an economical route.

Many houses have the pipes installed in the floor. Concrete is corrosive and will degrade copper pipes over time. This is a common cause of escape of waters.

In order for you to claim for the cost of replacing the pipes, you would need to prove that the reason they are damaged is due to an insured peril. The escape of water did not damage the pipes. It is not accidental damage. Nor is it likely to be one of the other events (or perils, as insurers call them).

You may find that it is economical to have the pipes rerouted and boxed in - but it may not be the prettiest solution.

Insurance is not a maintenance contract, nor is it designed to put right dodgy workmanship (although there is an argument that this wasn't dodgy workmanship, as it still comes on today and has taken roughly 40 years to cause your home any problems). Insurance is designed to cover you for sudden and unforseen damage. A flat roof has a much lower life span than a pitched tiled roof, that doesn't mean that insurers should replace it because it didn't last as long. The case of embedded copper pipes is a similar: they are likely to fail sooner than other methods of pipe installations.

Given that the work was done in the 70s, and probably doesn't go against any building regulations, you're unlikely to be able to claim off a third party.

I suspect that the new heating set up has caused an increase in pressure in the heating system, which has highlighted existing damage/defects in your pipework.

Whilst this is disappointing news, I am afraid that you are unlikely to receive financial assistance from your insurers.

SweetReason

Thanks you for very comprehensive reply Chickenlips.

Taelor98

We are going through a similar problem, both with the leaks of copper pipe in concrete screed and an insurance company that won’t cover trace and detect. The one difference is that the house underwent extreme renovation prior to our purchase, including flipping the kitchen to the opposite side of the house and rerouting the mains in approximately 2006. Does anyone know if this violated building codes at that point, or whether we have a legal case against our surveyor for not pointing this out in our building survey?

isplumm

Taelor98 wrote: »

We are going through a similar problem, both with the leaks of copper pipe in concrete screed and an insurance company that won’t cover trace and detect. The one difference is that the house underwent extreme renovation prior to our purchase, including flipping the kitchen to the opposite side of the house and rerouting the mains in approximately 2006. Does anyone know if this violated building codes at that point, or whether we have a legal case against our surveyor for not pointing this out in our building survey?

Suggest you post a new topic, not add to another one - but for me don't see that you have a case against your surveyor?

What type of survey did you have?

Mark

Zorillo

That's maintenance. You've got absolutely no chance of being able to claim for the cost of it.