Economy Energy refusing Refund of Credit Balance

matelodave

Hengus wrote: »

Putting to one side the OFTM customer relations debacle, there are two issues here.

1. The customer would like to pay 1/12 of the annual total energy cost and couldn’t really care a jot about debit/credit balances. Any credit/debit issues to be resolved at the end of the contract period. This was how it once was.

2. The inability of smaller suppliers to borrow money linked into Ofgem’s direction that suppliers should not allow customers to go into debt. These are translated into contract clauses such as ‘there has to be a credit balance at at all times’ or ‘there must be enough credit in the account to cover the following month’s charges’. Worst case, a supplier treats a debit balance as a debt (which it isn’t) and it blocks all attempts to switch away.

Clearly, the two issues above are none issues for most suppliers if actual usage in kWhs/year is in line with the plan projection when the contract was taken out, and the transfer of supply was in Spring/earlier Summer. Autumn/Winter switches now tend to lead to higher DDs with some of the smaller suppliers. If you were a Bank, would you lend money to a man with a laptop and a Supply Licence in what has now become a very challenging/volatile domestic energy market?

Harsh as it may seem, we consumers have to take some of the blame when it goes wrong for seeking out the cheapest suppliers. They are perhaps cheap for a reason.

When we were with GB Energy (another one that bit the dust) they worked out the direct debit as 1/12 of the annual cost and then adjusted it by +50% for the six winter months (October to March) and then -50% for the six summer months which did try to balance it out a bit.

However for all their cleverness they still went bust.

I do think that suppliers should explain to customers how DD's work and not just abritrarily bump up (or reduce) DD's without a proper calculation to back it up. Most do at least request an up-to-date reading if a customer requests a change to their DD.

I had problems with Scottish Power who wanted to keep faffing about with my DD once every three months based on their quarterly billing cycle.
SSE would only update their bills once every quarter (even though I had a smart meter) so the indicated balance was always three months out of date.

However there are a lot of customers out there who dont have a clue, happily accepting multiple estimated bills or statements and complaining when the big one comes in because they haven't been sending in or checking their meter readings.

Perhaps the only answer is to make people pay for their actual consumption on a monthly basis and make them do the budgeting rather than trying to use the energy company like a bank. Make it variable DD rather than fixed.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with that but many people wouldn't be able to cope with a monthly energy bill than fluctuated between £30 in the summer and up to £150 or more in the winter. or even a quarterly one of £400-£450 in January and March.

System

matelodave wrote: »

When we were with GB Energy (another one that bit the dust) they worked out the direct debit as 1/12 of the annual cost and then adjusted it by +50% for the six winter months (October to March) and then -50% for the six summer months which did try to balance it out a bit.

However for all their cleverness they still went bust.

I do think that suppliers should explain to customers how DD's work and not just abritrarily bump up (or reduce) DD's without a proper calculation to back it up. Most do at least request an up-to-date reading if a customer requests a change to their DD.

I had problems with Scottish Power who wanted to keep faffing about with my DD once every three months based on their quarterly billing cycle.
SSE would only update their bills once every quarter (even though I had a smart meter) so the indicated balance was always three months out of date.

However there are a lot of customers out there who dont have a clue, happily accepting multiple estimated bills or statements and complaining when the big one comes in because they haven't been sending in or checking their meter readings.

Perhaps the only answer is to make people pay for their actual consumption on a monthly basis and make them do the budgeting rather than trying to use the energy company like a bank. Make it variable DD rather than fixed.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with that but many people wouldn't be able to cope with a monthly energy bill than fluctuated between £30 in the summer and up to £150 or more in the winter. or even a quarterly one of £400-£450 in January and March.

I agree. We are now seeing yet more unintended consequences of Ofgem’s lack of proper business due diligence when issuing supply licences and the lack of regulatory compliance oversight, and, dare I say it, this site’s (and others) continued pressure on consumers to switch to the cheapest supplier on the market. I appreciate that this offers no comfort (no pun intended) to those on a tight budget with rapidly escalating energy prices.

lewisa

To all these people worrying about refunds you simply need to act reasonably, and if it's reasonable for you to use DD guarantee to get your money back then an energy company can quote all the T's and C's they like, they are irrelevant to all intents and purposes.

System

lewisa wrote: »

To all these people worrying about refunds you simply need to act reasonably, and if it's reasonable for you to use DD guarantee to get your money back then an energy company can quote all the T's and C's they like, they are irrelevant to all intents and purposes.

Please define ‘reasonably’. The DD Indemnity Claim is not, as far as I am aware, a one-sided process. Companies can raise an objection.


https://rapidataservices.com/direct-debit/new-indemnity-claims-rules-take-effect-1st-february-2017/

lewisa

Hengus wrote: »

Please define ‘reasonably’. The DD Indemnity Claim is not, as far as I am aware, a one-sided process. Companies can raise an objection.


https://rapidataservices.com/direct-debit/new-indemnity-claims-rules-take-effect-1st-february-2017/

That is referring to changes regarding claims of no authority.


It has nothing to do with the reasonable person test, on which there is 200 years of case law. And energy companies frequently act unreasonably.



Are you an energy company shill?

amcg100

After reading this thread I decided to download my Economy Energy bills and check them. I have been with Economy Energy for about six months.

After checking my meter I calculate that I am around £100 in credit. By the way, I have a spreadsheet that calculates this and do not rely on the estimated information supplied on bills.

The estimated readings are fairly close to the actual useage, and I would expect to be in credit at this time of year to cover heavy consumption during January and February.

So, based on my own calculations I do not have a problem, but some of the information offered on the bill is wrong – they say my projected useage for the next 12 months is nearly £2000. I am currently paying £75 per month, the correct amount to cover my annual Kwh consumption, which has not varied much over the 25 years I have occupied this property.

It could be that this is why some customers on here are having problems with direct debits being massively increased at the annual review. It would seem that Economy Energy ( whether by accident or design ) are incorrectly forecasting their customers consumption.

Furthermore, my bill states that I would save £249 by switching to a different tariff that is no longer available.

I have known energy companies not to read a meter for the entire duration of a three year contract, and I dont expect Economy Energy to show up looking for a read anytime soon. Although they are supposed to check your meter every six months, the cheap companies seldom do. The big six however will comply, and read the meter more regularly since they are more likely to be beaten up by the regulator. I dont want to mention any particular company here, but there are some who provide exceptional service although charging more premium prices.

Knowledge is power, and at this moment in time Economy Energy have a different view of the balance to my account than what it actually is. My figures are accurate whilst their's are not. In order to stay in control of energy costs, never rely on a cheap company. Economy Energy was easily the best price for me when I took out the contract, but only because I regularly check things myself and therefore am unlikely to suffer underbillin or overbilling issues.

I find most people dont want to spend their Sundays calculating energy bills and so I must be a bit of a trainspotter, but I think the point is, energy purchasing is just the same as any other product. The harder you force the price down, the poorer the service you will receive, and the more likely you are to have problems.

Darenth87

i wholeheartedly disagree with this supposed building up of credit nonsense. when you switch you tell them your annual usage amounts so quite why one has to allow these companies the flexibliity to rejig your payments to build up a credit to cover the colder months is really beyond me. in essence a 12 month period of direct debits should total to your annual usage amounts. the only thing that should change is perhaps if you have a couple of peaks but then you would expect a couple of troughs too to balance it out but sitting on hundreds of pounds of consumers credit balances just seems very wrong to me.

regardless of those pesky T&Cs what else am I a missing? To me they dress if all up in smoke and mirrors to baffle and and confuse.

It should be easy. agree a monthly payment and at the end of a 12 month period if they owe you then you get a refund ir you owe them you get a settlement bill.

Joyful

Companies no longer have to regularly read you meter, I think it is 5 years now so it is up to customers to submit regularly or have smart meters installed.

System

Joyful wrote: »

Companies no longer have to regularly read you meter, I think it is 5 years now so it is up to customers to submit regularly or have smart meters installed.

The domestic meter reading requirement was changed from once every 2/5* years to:

21B.4 The licensee must take all reasonable steps to obtain a meter reading (including any meter reading transmitted electronically from a meter to the licensee or provided by the Customer and accepted by the licensee)

(a) at least once per year from each of its Customers; and

(b) as from 1 April 2018 (or any other later date pursuant to a direction issued by the CMA no later than 1 September 2017) at least once per month from each of its Customers with a Supply Meter able to remotely transmit meter readings.

(b) as from 1 April 2018 (or any other later date pursuant to a direction issued by the CMA no later than 1 September 2017) at least once per month from each of its Customers with a Supply Meter able to remotely transmit meter readings.

* For some unfathomable reason, up until April 2016, British Gas had a derogation to read meters once every 5 years.

ajrh

I appreciate you don’t use your energy in equal twelfths and have been frustrated but resigned that economy will make sure you’re always in credit and it’s in their pocket, they jacked my gas DD by 6 a month despite me already having stumped up their mandatory double month starter. They have also refused to review or re credit anything before January. My other more galling issue is that despite monthly meter reads for gas and eclectic since joining in June, they’ve never generated an electric statement so I have no idea where I stand. My formal complaint was at last lodged on a second request I’ve had an acknowledgement letter now (weeks later) but no resolution and still as at today no statements.

How long to I give them and do I go to the ombudsman next?