Care Home Owner Wage Dispute

jonesas

For context, I am newly working in a private care home and the manager is also new (started a month before me.) I have caught on to the fact that the owner of the home is a bit tight with money from what other staff and my manager have mentioned.

Another member of staff and I are due to take our 3 residents on a small UK holiday but I have recently found out that there is some confusion about how much we get paid to do it.

Our usual working day is 8am-8am the following day and we sleep over there so we are normally paid for 14 hours and then an additional £40 for the sleep. The other staff member and I are going to be working 7 consecutive days, alternating who is on duty for the night, yet I have found out that the owner doesn't quite understand the fact that it is not a holiday for us (the staff) and she therefore feels she can pay us less.

She has told our manager that she would pay us for 11 hours one day, a flat £40 the next and it is to alternate like this until the end. It seems absolutely mind boggling because that works out as more or less half of what we would be entitled to should we be working those hours from our care home!

When I spoke to my manager she made it seem as though this is the norm with supported holidays as she had taken residents on holiday in her care-days and still only got paid for her usual working week but she agreed to go back to the boss who then decided to suggest 10 hours a day every day and then we alternate the sleep amount of £40 as per who is on duty overnight but I am STILL extremely frustrated with this. Taking 3 disabled people to an unfamiliar place is stressful enough, nevermind having to be away from our homes and loved ones for 7 days and it is NOT a holiday for me. Where are the 3 hours from our day going?? I sure as hell can't just 'clock off' for them.

My manager is not siding with us on this because I know the owner is really pushing for this as she is suffering financially but, although harsh, this is not my bloody problem. As an employee I have the right to be paid for the hours I do, no?

Is it really true that when "on holiday" with your residents you aren't actually entitled to usual rate of pay? We have no expenses paid aside from the accomodation, no food budget provided for ourselves, NADA. It feels so unfair but my manager is CONVINCED it's just normal because she has had to do it in the past. I personally feel she was just taken advantage of and feel I am in that same situation ☹️

Advice??

elsien

Alternating the sleepins is normal if only one of you is likely to be needed because you can take it in turns to be on call at night.
At my last place (national charity) it was normal policy to be paid our contracted hours for the week and no more plus sleepins , but we got time owing on our return depending on the length of the holiday. Part timers would get full pay (38 hours). No one got overtime.
There would normally be a food allowance per day and reasonable expenses such as entry into attractions. You say it's supported living rather than residential so these expenses would usually be paid for by the clients. Some staff agree to these terms because clients won't get a holiday otherwise. It's not built into the costs the local authority are willing to pay, as a rule.
You're right, it is hard work and it's not a holiday for you but I always volunteered to go because I enjoyed it. I would always ask for volunteers who understood the pay before booking. I would not have gone if I'd had to pay my expenses myself - that would be unfair on clients if they couldn't do the things they wanted to because I wasn't willing to pay the money to go in with them.
You need to check what your contract/staffhandbook says about reimbursement. However it is extremely unlikely that you can be made to go, so if you don't like the terms on offer then tell them to find someone else.

elsien

What sort of place are you staying in? Are meals not included? We used to get £4 towards lunch and £12 towards an evening meal if they weren't included but that was a while ago so it'd be more now. Drinks and ice teams etc we'd buy ourselves because we were saving on food by not being at home.

As an aside, I stopped volunteering to go when my dog had to go in kennels while I was away - not an expense I was prepared to pay.

jonesas

So alternating the sleeps is acceptable to me. As you say, only one needs to respond so only one needs the pay. My main issue is the missing 3 hours of the usual 14 hour day. Why does being outside of service take away from our pay?? This seems mind blowing to me.

I can of course refuse to go but was not made aware of the pay situation until the last minute and we are due to go in a matter of days. I also felt it unfair for someone else to take a dent in pay, not just myself!

We are private residential, that was my poor use of terminology there haha. We also don't have any kind of employee handbook nor does our contract mention holidays for residents.

But regardless, we don't get any amount of time back so there are going to be 3 hours in every day that aren't paid or reimbursed in any way and that just seems crazy to me. 21 unpaid hours is a lot!

kingfisherblue

I wonder what the situation is if it takes you below minimum wage? Are you in a union? What do they say? If you are not in a union (and I have a feeling that you are not), then I would urge you to consider joining one. It may not help you with this particular problem, but if you are ever accused of anything, you will want someone on your side.

elsien

It's not just the pay though, is it?
What is the holiday and what does it include? If you're having to pay out for entry fees etc. that would normally be reimbursed. So other than food, what extra costs do you anticipate?
Are you opted into or out of the working time directive?

Nebulous2

What you're describing is very common, if not the norm. My first holiday, many years ago, I was paid £3 a day allowance plus 15 hours time back for a full week away. Normal working hours were 37.5.

It has changed quite a bit over the years with much of that change driven by staff expectations. As elsien says often a lot of the costs (accommodation for everybody, food, entry to attractions, transport and extra hours over and above the usual budget) are met by the people receiving a service.

We used to set it so that staff would receive a noticeable additional payment, without being paid for every hour they were away. We also encouraged staff to get a bit of time off at some point if it could be managed safely, get out for a walk or get an evening off. All of this was up front however, not made up a few days beforehand.

jonesas

The holiday is purely accommodation, we are out in the countryside but close to leisure centre/activities but these will need to be paid for (cinema, swimming, bowling etc)

We are a VERY small care service (max capacity is 4) and I have only been with the service for a month. I am not in any kind of union yet and the owner has already underpaid me twice (first payment was under, second payment to rectify was also wrong) and I get the impression that these "mistakes" and payment disputes happen frequently and I got a bad feeling that this was another way for her to save some money.

I really do appreciate that times are tough and I of course don't want our residents to miss out on their holiday I just want to be paid for my time and I don't think that is asking too much!

elsien

My personal opinion is that if they're expecting you to pay your own food, expenses etc yourself they are out of order. The home should have a budget for that and it should have been planned well in advance of the holiday.
The pay is debatable but if it's not taking you below minimum wage there's little you can do about it.
Your problem is that you've only been there a month and you have no bargaining power. So other than refusing to go which is difficult at such short notice and could have repercussions for your job, you've not got many options. You couid say that you just cannot afford to be so out of pocket with all the potential extras and see where that gets you.


I think it's poor practice to send someone who's only been there a month away on a 7 day holiday with people you really don't know well at the moment and I'm wondering if they've dumped on you because you're new and others have said no.

Nebulous2

jonesas wrote: »

The holiday is purely accommodation, we are out in the countryside but close to leisure centre/activities but these will need to be paid for (cinema, swimming, bowling etc)


I really do appreciate that times are tough and I of course don't want our residents to miss out on their holiday I just want to be paid for my time and I don't think that is asking too much!

You still haven't answered - who pays the food and entries etc? Do you have a budget in cash with you for that? I've never known staff have to pay their own food on holiday.

Unfortunately it may be a choice of one or the other. Compromise on the hours or holidays just don't happen at all. For long-standing staff holidays are often welcome. It's a change, you see residents in a very different light, you get a noticeable lump of extra money for doing it (without counting every hour) and whilst it is hard work it is also often very enjoyable.

It's not about times being tough either. Holidays previously survived on goodwill. As your manager has pointed out, rightly or wrongly, staff are better paid on holidays now than they ever were.


I'm beginning to question why a longer standing member of staff who knows the people you support better isn't doing it however. I'd have expected them to be volunteering if they trusted the owner.

[Deleted User]

You should be paid for every hour you are working, regardless if this is for a residents holiday, you are there as a member of staff. If your expected to work 14 hours 7 days you ought to be paid for them.

With regards to the sleep in on call bit, whenever it’s your turn you should be paid the £40.

Again, expenses should be covered if they expect you to go, you wouldn’t have the expenses otherwise.

As for no handbook I’d still expect a company to have a policy for this sort of thing, ask to see it, your entitled.

I certainly wouldn’t be working for free, regardless what job you do or who you work for your entitled to NMW,