Atos assessor report - pip

poppy12345

Danday wrote: »

Are you suggesting that as the claimant has only gained 4 points, not enough for any award, that the assessor recommends that as there will be no changes for the next two years? - that no matter what no award will be possible for the next two years as only 4 points have been given for now and for the next two years.

That wasn't my suggestion, it was the HCP and yes this can and does happen. Which is why we challenge the decision with MR then Tribunal.

Danday

poppy12345 wrote: »

That wasn't my suggestion, it was the HCP and yes this can and does happen. Which is why we challenge the decision with MR then Tribunal.

I understand that which then would lead to another scenario which happens quite a lot.
Not everybody challenges these PIP decisions, they might do so for MR as that is quite painless but pull out when that comes back as no change on the basis of not feeling up to going to a Tribunal or maybe another reason as I have done. That claim would effectively die as being out of time to appeal - over the month allowed but still within the maximum 13 months
The common approach is then to put in a new PIP claim to see if a second time around claim would generate a better result.
Would the DWP automatically resist that second application in view of the non contested assessor/DWP decision of no changes likely within the next two years even if the second claim form was properly completed this time around and more compelling evidence was enclosed?

Or would the DWP be extremely generous and despite being out of time to lodge an appeal they would contact the Tribunal Service on the claimant's behalf to ask for the second claim to be treated as a late appeal against the first decision?

I can see a whole world of possible different challenges going on either way.

poppy12345

It's never a good idea to keep on re-claiming because the chances are you'll keep being refused, even more so if you send the same evidence as you did previously. MR and Tribunal is always the best route.

Danday

poppy12345 wrote: »

It's never a good idea to keep on re-claiming because the chances are you'll keep being refused, even more so if you send the same evidence as you did previously. MR and Tribunal is always the best route.

Agree with you. but there is a large number of claimants that would simply not cope with a Tribunal hearing - they see the alternative of a new claim as their way forward.
I did the same for the 1st of my wife's AA claims - I just put in a new claim. This also failed and went to Tribunal where I was personally slated by the Judge which has put me off Tribunal hearings. The third claim, a day or so after the Tribunal hearing went through with no problems and she was awarded AA at the highest rate indefinitely. So there is some mileage in doing multiple claims instead of appealing.

NeilCr

Danday wrote: »

Unfortunately this is par for the course with PIP.
I have had five years and three face to face assessments and for each one of them ended up with 0 points.

For the first two failures I had to fight to get what I believed was my entitlement - Enhanced Care & Mobility. I received both at the MR stage. For the third refusal I just gave up as I felt that I could no longer put up with having to fight these decisions every other year for the rest of my life.
You must decide if you are fit enough and mentally alert to be able to challenge this decision all the way to a Tribunal hearing. If that seems like a mountain that you could not face then just give up - you won't be on your own - many are fed up with the constant 2/3 yearly reviews and face to face assessments.
If you are able to beat the DWP at their game then go for it. You will have a minimum 50/50 chance of winning at a Tribunal hearing.

Actually, no, this isn't par for the course for PIP. The system is (deeply) flawed in places but a lot of people do get the correct awards. And a lot of HCPs are fine. As poppy says we do tend to hear the bad cases here as folks, in general, tend not to post good news.

OP. I am sorry for your bad outcome. I agree with poppy that you should go down the MR and tribunal route. Can I suggest you find, if possible, someone to help you with your MR. CAB may be able to help or do you have a support worker. When you get the decision you'll have 28 days to get the MR in so do get in touch with them, sooner rather than later.

[Deleted User]

I had almost exactly the same result with a face to face assessment. Very badly done, assessor with challenging attitude. In her report she both said that I was calm and able to connect with her and also that I was hostile lol. She claimed I did a full physical most of which she didn't ask me to do, two of the things she asked me to do (she asked me to do squats FGS) I refused. She ignored the tears, hair pulling when I was upset, said I had normal gait when walking when I never do.

I was awarded 4 points for care, 0 for mobility (I think).

MR, little change

Tribunal 14 points care, 14 mobility, enhanced care and mobility awarded. One thing I did note at the tribunal, they really did allow for stress affecting ability to travel. They weren't confrontational like the face to face assessor was. There was the odd trick question but as I was telling the truth, that wasn't a problem. I was watched walking away from the tribunal room (I found out when I turned round after the 'head' Judge gave directions on how to leave) but that was ok because there were lots of ramps I had problems negotiating lol.

So yes, I would say it was well worth going as far as a Tribunal, as many times as you have to (i.e. every two or three years). I have copies of what I wrote on my form so will use that as a basis and alter as things change. The first time was hugely stressful, now I know what to expect I don't expect the same level of stress.

Don't be hurt by the lies. I was shocked too, even though I half expected it. This type of face to face person must be quite sad, if you think about it, to do what they do. Their view on the world must be terrible. They are the losers, just enabled to be so by the Government, sadly. Mine even turned up half an hour early (later found out because of the backlog they are encouraged with bonuses to do more assessments which they can only do by fitting more into a day, which must cause problems for the assessee like it did me). That says it all really.

Just concentrate on 'winning' if such a phrase is appropriate. You know what your challenges are and that PIP is justified so pursue it. You don't have to let the system defeat you. If 70% of Tribunals are successful, its very possible to 'win'. I was even told by my local autism charity that I'd be lucky to get any award. Sent her the results with a smile lolol. Hopefully she will be more helpful with the next person, maybe.

Danday

NeilCr wrote: »

Actually, no, this isn't par for the course for PIP. The system is (deeply) flawed in places but a lot of people do get the correct awards. And a lot of HCPs are fine. As poppy says we do tend to hear the bad cases here as folks, in general, tend not to post good news.

OP. I am sorry for your bad outcome. I agree with poppy that you should go down the MR and tribunal route. Can I suggest you find, if possible, someone to help you with your MR. CAB may be able to help or do you have a support worker. When you get the decision you'll have 28 days to get the MR in so do get in touch with them, sooner rather than later.

I wouldn't say that a lot of people get correct awards. What I would say is that a lot of people get an award that they accept, but whether it is the correct award or not is another matter.

Do you not accept that a lot of people know that they could not face the possibility of appearing at a Tribunal hearing much the same if and when compulsory video recording comes on board. I know many that will simply freeze of the thought that they are being filmed. Your suggestion to get outside professional assistance is fine, but the reality of it being good assistance or no assistance due to the lack of resources is extremely common.
I spent five years looking for any offer of help in my PIP journey. What I did find was substandard advice being offered and no help offered at other places.

NeilCr

Danday wrote: »

I wouldn't say that a lot of people get correct awards. What I would say is that a lot of people get an award that they accept, but whether it is the correct award or not is another matter.

Do you not accept that a lot of people know that they could not face the possibility of appearing at a Tribunal hearing. Your suggestion to get outside professional assistance is fine, but the reality of it being good assistance or no assistance due to the lack of resources is extremely common.
I spent five years looking for any offer of help in my PIP journey. What I did find was substandard advice being offered and no help offered at other places.

We see quite a lot of people who have applied for PIP by themselves and are quite content with their award. We help others and they often get the right award. You seem to know only about your own experiences which, quite honestly, have not been helped in any way by how you have approached things.

Of course people have bad medicals and outcomes and, I completely agree that there are some who cannot face taking their case any further. It's a shame because, from my own experience, tribunals are not as daunting as people may expect. But, I get it and it's a crying shame that there is a lack of support available for those in such a situation.

Yep. There is a lack of assistance. Personally, I blame the current government and it's financial cuts. My partner was the debt and benefits worker at our CAB. She was hugely successful at DLA tribunals and has some very interesting stories to tell. A few years back there were changes in legal aid and she lost her job. We have never been able to replace her expertise and presence at tribunals

My current CAB is the only advice centre in our area (no Shelter for example). Everyone (and I mean everyone - council, solicitors, police, social housing providers) refers people to us. Most of our funding comes from the council and this has reduced in real terms over the years. Our council isn't great but I don't blame them for this - they are being squeezed by central government funding cuts and face harder and harder choices. It wouldn't surprise me if our funding was stopped completely - and then where would people go.

You know. You spend an awful lot of time moaning, groaning and grumbling on this forum. You've got time on your hands. Get involved - complain to your MP - see if there are any local groups you could lend support to. I think you might just learn something