Logistics of sister buying house with elderly mother

Beegarden

My widowed mother, aged 88, lives independently in the same town as my sister and her husband. The latter have decided that they would like to move south to Brighton to be near one of her children and her grandchlildren and great grandchildren. Although the original thought was for Mum to have her own house nearby, they have now suggested that Mum sells up to buy a third share in their house with them. Mum has naturally been seduced into looking forward to being with some of her grandchildren and being near the sea and not necessarily thought about whether Brighton, particularly with its lack of parking, would be suitable for her (she can't walk very far and buses don't always go where you want them to). I was hoping that things would not progress but my sister's house now has a completion date and things are moving fast. Although I still think that this has not been thought through properly by Mum ie losing friends, doctor, local knowledge of her middle class, safe town, I believe that she will now be disappointed to not go through with it.


My mother will be using the proceeds of her current house as her share (about £600K). We three siblings are joint beneficiaries in my parents' will and they have always been openly fair to us. My brother in law buys, renovates and sells houses so he is quite savvy in that respect and always 'wears his business head.' I want as little ill feeling to emerge in the future so I was looking for advice to help set it up now. Am I right in thinking that the house should be bought as 'tenants in common' with a third share stipulated? Would my mother have to write another will or could she ad a codicil to the effect that my sister and her husband buy out my brother and myself within a certain timeframe? Lastly, is there a 'best way' to do things regarding Inheritance Tax?


My brother and I are both executors but all three now have Power of Attorneys in both Finance and Welfare.


I'd be very grateful for any advice, please, so that I can talk with confidence rather than be beaten down my brother in law's knowledge.

G_M

Beegarden wrote: »

....... Am I right in thinking that the house should be bought as 'tenants in common' with a third share stipulated?
Yes. And get the conveyancing solicitor to draw up a Deed specifying this,as wellas how ongoing costs are shared and what happens if one party want to sell, move in a new partner (my mum found a partner at 75!) etc

Would my mother have to write another will or could she ad a codicil to the effect that my sister and her husband buy out my brother and myself within a certain timeframe?
I would get a (different) solicitor to draw up a new will.

The biggest issue would be if sister could not afford to buy out mum's share. If mum also had savings/investments = in value to twice the value of mum's share of he property (at market value on date of death), it' easy: sister inherits the house and the other 2 siblings share the cash.

But if there's not enough cash at that time, sister might have to sell the house.......indeed, the Executors might have o force her to sell.....

Lastly, is there a 'best way' to do things regarding Inheritance Tax?
There's no gifts involved, so IHT is due on the full Estate

My brother and I are both executors but all three now have Power of Attorneys in both Finance and Welfare.

I'd be very grateful for any advice, please, so that I can talk with confidence rather than be beaten down my brother in law's knowledge.

Hope that helps.......

Browntoa

Duplicate of your other thread here on the same subject

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74764842#Comment_74764842

G_M

Ah! Lots of suggestions over there. No point repeating them all.....

pinklady21

But the o/p might find some additional advice over here.
My concern would be if your mother decides it is not working out for her - what does she do then? Her money will be tied up in a share of the house. Would she be prepared to force a sale?
What if she requires care - either in her own home, or residential. How will that be paid for? What then happens to her share of the house?

My thoughts are that I would be cautious for your mother's sake. How well does she know Brighton? Has she even seen the house that she is going to be living in?
What is motivating her agreement to the arrangement? Is she worried that if she says no, there will be negative repercussions?
Or has she not really thought it through either?
Have you talked to her 121 about it?

For the arrangement to work, it needs more thought and open non-emotive discussion among all family members, IMHO.
Best of luck.

trailingspouse

Deprivation of assets - what if your mother needs residential care? How will it be paid for? I think at 88 she could be reasonably expected to need it in the not-too-distant future.

xylophone

as her share (about £600K).

Is this actually more than a 1/3 share of the new property?

If so, the TIC agreement/Trust Deed should reflect this?

[Deleted User]

Is the new house worth £1.8million or ££600k and she's putting in £200k?

I think the question needs to be asked, what happens if for some reason the mother needs to move out, go into care or as you have said, finds it doesn't fit her needs.

What if your mother loves being near her grandchildren but needs some quiet time as well (she may not, but what if she does)? What provision is being made to ensure your mother can get out if she needs to go to the shops?GP etc? How does she manage these things now?

xylophone

thought about whether Brighton, particularly with its lack of parking, would be suitable for her (she can't walk very far and buses don't always go where you want them to).

Might she qualify for a blue badge?

She insists on driving but realistically this may not be a possibility for much longer - I know that people do continue to drive when they are in their nineties - I'm thinking of an acquaintance who did just that - but equally another acquaintance of 88 had continued to drive beyond the point where it was quite wise (in my opinion anyway) - she walked away from the accident and is still in the land of the living but.....:eek:

At all events the proposal needs careful thought and your mother should be taking independent advice.

Margot123

My biggest concern would be any future care home fees.

The Local Authority would perhaps insist that your Mum's share in the property be sold to cover the costs.
Would your sister be able to cover that (at market value)?

I know that maybe your sister has suggested caring for Mum herself but that is usually an unrealistic prospect. Care would go well beyond making meals, helping with showering etc. How would she cope with changing incontinence pads, injecting insulin, lifting Mum when she falls? Would this cause issues within the household?

Cakeguts

People think up these daft ideas when they themselves are still fit but don't think about what will happen if they become ill themselves as they age.



A 60 year old cannot safely lift a dead weight 90 year old. In a carehome they have methods for lifting people safely. In a normal home there usually isn't adaptations for hoists and wheelchairs.



If mum becomes disabled, daughter will have to get up in the night to turn her in bed or mum could get bed sores. Carehome workers work shifts so that there is someone on duty at night if they are needed.



The nice idea is that mum will only need to be cooked for and taken on outings. The reality is that mum could get dementia, become disabled, and become incontinent. Caring then becomes a 24 hour 7 day a week job.