Forged cheque nightmare - HSBC making me pay £10,500

malacka96

colsten wrote: »

It has been common practice for decades that banks allow people to use uncleared cheque funds



There is therefore, IMO, not a lot of mileage in trying to claim HSBC acted negligently by allowing the funds to be withdrawn before the cheque had cleared (if this is indeed what happened)

HSBC will also have a record of how the withdrawals were made. If they were made online, a SecureKey would have been needed to set up the recipient(s) - unless the OP had previously already sent some money to them. This would either have been the physical SecureKey, or a virtual one, generated by the HSBC app. The OP should be asking HSBC to tell her which method was used, and when. If the withdrawals, or requests for a physical SecureKey, were made online, the person making the withdrawals would have needed to be in possession of the OP's physical SecureKey gadget, and have known the PIN for it. It the virtual SecureKey was used, they would have had to have had the OP's mobile at the time, as the OP's app is linked to the OP's physical device.

I found out that my digital secure key was used. This is also why I am 100% certain that my ex was involved, despite the sudden convenient disappearance, he was the only other person with access to my phone.

malacka96

Ed-1 wrote: »

The account will almost certainly have been applied for online.

So anyone can go and set up an account in someone's name from the internet without confirmed identification or meeting in person? As my ex had frequent access to my room he would have been able to get a hold of my passport, is that sufficient enough to open an account online?

Shakin_Steve

Did you look at the chequebook? Is there a cheque missing?

malacka96

warby68 wrote: »

OP, I think you need someone in real life to support you. Your parents? A tutor, even a friend.

Then you need to see through the Ombudsman process to the end.

You need to be able to approach it with some clarity though and whilst undoubtedly you feel dreadful and your stress and emotions are real, putting all the emphasis on these in the hope that someone takes pity on you as a young victim is unlikely to work.

Sorry if that sounds unkind - I just mean you do need to get a grip of the facts to plead your case in a clear way so that someone can objectively decide how much you were to blame and how much the Bank were to blame for what happened.

My take on what happened is that this does seem like a planned out fraud given the multiple stages. Someone accessed or reset your online banking details after the phone call and possibly obtained a new cheque book. Then paid money from one of your accounts into the other and switched it back before the original payment method had cleared. This enabled the individual to make the electronic payments out of your current account without drawing attention at the time from an 'artificial' credit balance. The events only came to light when the original cheque bounced and you became overdrawn to the higher amount.

I don't know how these phone calls to extract banking details are viewed. There are numerous warnings not to give your details out to anyone so the line might be quite firm these days. However if you are able to recall the details of the call and the sophistication of it and any reasons you might have had for falling for it, this may help.

The cheque number should tell you whether it was from a cheque book you had ever had in your possession and whether the signature should be challenged. Was your address ever changed online? Things like that.

The payments out are of quite a high amount (although I suspect still below certain key limits) for a student account - I suppose you could check or query whether the Bank had the correct settings on your account. It more than likely did but unusual transactions are sometimes flagged and there may be some judgement call to query there.

The main challenge from your side would be what is 'wrong' with the system that allowed the money to be paid out to third parties before the cheque had cleared.

You need copies of everything (don't tear up any more letters)

If you suspect an ex, presumably you have reported them with what information you have about them.

I know you're at the end of your tether but it really isn't going to go away on its own so some big deep breaths and working through it with some personal support and guidance will probably be best.

Please note that there is a large element of 'joining the dots' here from what you have said to render a likely scenario. Information is patchy and things may have gone down completely differently.I do not know how HSBC works internally with regard to cleared and uncleared funds but it does seem this is the key aspect which allowed the money to be 'lost' which the Bank rather than yourself could control.

To encourage people reviewing your case to think positively I would also acknowledge your responsibility for the original amount of student overdraft and indicate a willingness to repay that in due course.

Thank you.

I definitely have no problem paying back my student overdraft, that’s a liability that was all my doing.

Shakin_Steve wrote: »

Did you look at the chequebook? Is there a cheque missing?

Yes I looked and there are no cheques missing. But the cheque was paid from a fake account with Ulster Bank, so now this is an even more serious case of identity theft.

Shakin_Steve

Ah, yes, sorry I missed that.

Ed-1

malacka96 wrote: »

So anyone can go and set up an account in someone's name from the internet without confirmed identification or meeting in person? As my ex had frequent access to my room he would have been able to get a hold of my passport, is that sufficient enough to open an account online?

With the right basic information, it probably is with Natwest/RBS/Ulster. They often get you to upload a photo of passport/driving license to SecureDocs before the account is opened. Sometimes the application will ask for a debit card number from another account you hold as well.

colsten

malacka96 wrote: »

I found out that my digital secure key was used. This is also why I am 100% certain that my ex was involved, despite the sudden convenient disappearance, he was the only other person with access to my phone.

Access to a phone, or to the physical securekey, is not sufficient to generate one of the keys. The person must have a PIN number (different to the PIN of the debit card), or use touch ID on the app.

Which method was used? If the PIN, how did your ex know your PIN? How did he know the PIN for your phone, to start with? Was your ex the only other person who had access to your phone?

EDIT:
I have just double-checked on my HSBC app. It requires either Touch-ID or the Digital Secure password before you can do anything. You cannot generate any security code / securekey without having successfully passed the authentication.

malacka96

colsten wrote: »

Access to a phone, or to the physical securekey, is not sufficient to generate one of the keys. The person must have a PIN number (different to the PIN of the debit card), or use touch ID on the app.

Which method was used? If the PIN, how did your ex know your PIN?

He used to use my phone since his was always "broken", and got annoyed at me having to unlock it for him all the time, so asked for my lock screen passcode to unlock my phone and fingerprint on touch ID. I felt weird about it, but I "loved him" (well thought I did), and he got angry since he insisted that I must be cheating and hiding it from him. My passcode for my phone was the same as that for my digital secure key so I could remember it more easily. I'm awaiting from HSBC more specifics, such as whether it was touch ID or the pin.

Yes I'm an idiot. Honestly, I never thought that he was even remotely capable of doing what he did, so never conceived that though/ worry/link in my mind at the time. My friends' partners knew their lock screen passcodes and vice versa so it seemed normal in my circle.

Trust me I hate and berate myself everyday as I think back to all this and how I could be so bloody dumb. Typing this out is embarrassing given the aftermath.

colsten

I'm afraid, it sounds as if you have learned the hard way that giving another person your login credentials, and even let them add their fingerprints to your touchid, is a recipe for disaster. I can't see that the bank or the FOS will believe you that you were not complicit in the scam. The best you can hope for is an agreement with HSBC for paying back the money in small instalments. You should arrnage for this before they mark your credit file and/or your CIFAS record.

If you need assistance, you could try https://www.stepchange.org.

Good luck. It's a terrible situation to be in but I am sure you will come out the other end.

malacka96

colsten wrote: »

I'm afraid, it sounds as if you have learned the hard way that giving another person your login credentials, and even let them add their fingerprints to your touchid, is a recipe for disaster. I can't see that the bank or the FOS will believe you that you were not complicit in the scam. The best you can hope for is an agreement with HSBC for paying back the money in small instalments. You should arrnage for this before they mark your credit file and/or your CIFAS record.

If you need assistance, you could try https://www.stepchange.org.

Good luck. It's a terrible situation to be in but I am sure you will come out the other end.

Thank you. And yes I see what you mean, he is clearly a skilled fraudster who met a dumb unsuspecting person, was the perfect combination for his plan. it's terrible that I met someone who is so evil. This has been a painful but massive learning experience, my friends used to tell me that I trust people too easily and a poor judge of character. My parents have always labelled me as naive. From this I know not to trust anyone ever again, it has made me a lot more reserved but I think that this is for the best so I never have to be fooled to this extent again. Definitely has opened my eyes to how twisted, malicious and purely evil people can be, and how people can pretend to be lovely but are really devils in disguise. It's strange how differently I used to look at the world this time last year. Probably the biggest lesson I'll ever experience in life.