Help with return of deposit

Argile24564

Hi

Sorry for the long post.

My daughter rented a flat and has been trying to get her deposit back for some weeks (over two months). She has just let me know what has been going on and i wonder if some of the more knowledgeable people on the board can suggest the correct way forward.
After a lot of phone calls and the letting agency demanding to see final bills they have finally paid a portion of the deposit back however they have withheld a large proportion of the deposit for cleaning and a fee for the agent checking the property once they left. It appears the fee was in the contract they signed but the cleaning is quite frankly astonishing.
When they moved in the flat was disgusting, thick layers of grease on the cooker, hairs and stains all over the bed, dirt everywhere. We took photos of the state the flat was in and whilst we cleaned it with her, we told her to call and complain to the agency. The agency told her they could send round a cleaner but if the flat wasn't in the same state as the cleaner left it, when they left, they would be charged. Alternatively they suggested she deal with it as is and could leave the flat as she found it. We however would not do that and the flat was cleaned from top to bottom before leaving and again we took photos of the clean flat.

I looked into the details of the deposit and couldn't find any trace, when looking the details up, on the three deposit holding companies web sites. Additionally my daughter was never given a copy of the certificate, or any other documentation, i'm lead to believe they are supposed to be supplied with.

So I called the agency, explained that the flat was cleaned and that we could find no trace of the the deposit being protected and the lady i spoke to told me they would send the certificate through. They have finally sent an email with a copy of the contract where the fee is outlined. A copy of the deposit protection certificate which has not been signed by the tenant and a copy of a cleaning bill where the invoice date is from before my daughter left the flat!!!!!
At no point has my daughter agreed for anything to be taken from the deposit apart from the fee that was in the contract they signed.

How do you think i should proceed?

Thanks for reading.

Trixsie1989

Argile24564 wrote: »

Hi

Sorry for the long post.

My daughter rented a flat and has been trying to get her deposit back for some weeks (over two months). She has just let me know what has been going on and i wonder if some of the more knowledgeable people on the board can suggest the correct way forward.
After a lot of phone calls and the letting agency demanding to see final bills they have finally paid a portion of the deposit back however they have withheld a large proportion of the deposit for cleaning and a fee for the agent checking the property once they left. It appears the fee was in the contract they signed but the cleaning is quite frankly astonishing.
When they moved in the flat was disgusting, thick layers of grease on the cooker, hairs and stains all over the bed, dirt everywhere. We took photos of the state the flat was in and whilst we cleaned it with her, we told her to call and complain to the agency. The agency told her they could send round a cleaner but if the flat wasn't in the same state as the cleaner left it, when they left, they would be charged. Alternatively they suggested she deal with it as is and could leave the flat as she found it. We however would not do that and the flat was cleaned from top to bottom before leaving and again we took photos of the clean flat.

I looked into the details of the deposit and couldn't find any trace, when looking the details up, on the three deposit holding companies web sites. Additionally my daughter was never given a copy of the certificate, or any other documentation, i'm lead to believe they are supposed to be supplied with.

So I called the agency, explained that the flat was cleaned and that we could find no trace of the the deposit being protected and the lady i spoke to told me they would send the certificate through. They have finally sent an email with a copy of the contract where the fee is outlined. A copy of the deposit protection certificate which has not been signed by the tenant and a copy of a cleaning bill where the invoice date is from before my daughter left the flat!!!!!
At no point has my daughter agreed for anything to be taken from the deposit apart from the fee that was in the contract they signed.

How do you think i should proceed?

Thanks for reading.

Was the deposit protected with anyone at all? If not there are templates online from shelter to go about suing the landlord as it is a legal requirement to protect deposit within 30 days for most tenancies. What does the contract say about protection?

Argile24564

Hi

The contract says the deposit will be protected as required by law.
The certificate they sent through is from one of the schemes but it isn't signed by the tenant and putting the dates, postcode and surname from the certificate into the search tool on the deposit schemes' website doesn't bring up and details of a protected deposit.

Thanks

saajan_12

Argile24564 wrote: »

Hi

Sorry for the long post.

My daughter rented a flat and has been trying to get her deposit back for some weeks (over two months). She has just let me know what has been going on and i wonder if some of the more knowledgeable people on the board can suggest the correct way forward.
After a lot of phone calls and the letting agency demanding to see final bills they have finally paid a portion of the deposit back however they have withheld a large proportion of the deposit for cleaning and a fee for the agent checking the property once they left. It appears the fee was in the contract they signed but the cleaning is quite frankly astonishing. - they shouldn't withhold for bills, but looks like that battle has been (finally) won.
When they moved in the flat was disgusting, thick layers of grease on the cooker, hairs and stains all over the bed, dirt everywhere. We took photos of the state the flat was in and whilst we cleaned it with her, we told her to call and complain to the agency.- good, do you have dated photos or a record of this being sent to the LL/LA or amended on the inventory? The agency told her they could send round a cleaner but if the flat wasn't in the same state as the cleaner left it, when they left, they would be charged. Alternatively they suggested she deal with it as is and could leave the flat as she found it. - fair enough, your responsibility is to return it in the same state you found it less wear and tear, so clean -> clean or dirty -> dirty. Do you have this agreement from the agency in writing? an email? We however would not do that and the flat was cleaned from top to bottom before leaving and again we took photos of the clean flat. - good, are there any cleanliness issues the agency is complaining about?

I looked into the details of the deposit and couldn't find any trace, when looking the details up, on the three deposit holding companies web sites. Additionally my daughter was never given a copy of the certificate, or any other documentation, i'm lead to believe they are supposed to be supplied with. - yes, but supplying this to one of the joint tenants is sufficient. IF daughter was on a joint tenancy, could one of the co tenants have received it? Could the protection be under another tenant's name?

So I called the agency, explained that the flat was cleaned and that we could find no trace of the the deposit being protected and the lady i spoke to told me they would send the certificate through. They have finally sent an email with a copy of the contract where the fee is outlined. - please quote the term. However in general such terms are deemed unfair or unenforceable, since the LL has suffered no loss if they receive a clean property back in the same or better condition as at the start. A copy of the deposit protection certificate which has not been signed by the tenant - what date does the certificate say it was protected? After 30 days? The tenant's signature on there is great evidence that they were served a copy, but the lack thereof is not necessarily proof it wasn't served. and a copy of a cleaning bill where the invoice date is from before my daughter left the flat!!!!! - Do you mean the LL/LA cleaned the flat prematurely or that the bill is fake? It could just be a typo in the date..
At no point has my daughter agreed for anything to be taken from the deposit apart from the fee that was in the contract they signed. - Daughter doesn't need to 'agree', the LL can make deductions and if you dispute them then the deposit scheme decide.

How do you think i should proceed?

Thanks for reading.

Provide the LL / LA with before and after photos showing there was no area left less clean than when you received the property. State that a general term for cleaning is an unfair term and the LL has suffered no loss because the property was left in the same or better condition throughout. Ask that they detail any cleanliness issues in the after pictures or return the deposit within 7 days or you will raise with the deposit scheme.

If they don't then raise a dispute with the deposit scheme and provide the same explanation and evidence of tenancy agreement, before pics, after pics.

D_M_E

If you cannot find evidence of deposit protection then you should stop argueing with the agents/landlord and start a claim for return of deposit and the penalty of 1-3x deposit for non protection.

I would name both agent and landlord as co defendants for non protection and landlord for 1-3x deposit claim.

Argile24564

Thanks for all the responses.
My daughter's joint tenant is her boyfriend and he also not provided with deposit certificates etc. I have tried all permutations of the surnames (even tried some common miss-spellings) and dates from the certificate and the actual tenancy start (cert says the deposit was protected a few months before the start of the lease as they paid all the fee's and deposit to secure the flat a few months before they were due to move in).

I will be calling the deposit scheme tomorrow with the certificate number to confirm it was actually protected. They definitely have not been supplied with the deposit certificate, leaflet etc before today and only received a scan of the certificate today by email.

With regard to the cleaning bill. The invoice date and the payment due date for the cleaning would both have to have been typo'd as they are the normal month apart with the invoice date two weeks before they vacated the flat. It was certainly not cleaned by anyone other than us before they left.

If they did protect the deposit she will raise a dispute, if they didn't i'm sure the deposit scheme will be interested to see the certificate they supplied us.

Thanks again

Argile24564

Realised you asked a couple of other things.
The term was 12 months.
Also the fee outlined in the contract was for "a contribution to final check out costs" not cleaning.

Pixie5740

I wonder how the letting agency was able to pay back a portion of the deposit without your daughter or her boyfriend agreeing this with the deposit scheme.

As with all these deposit threads read G_M's Deposits: payment, protection and return.

saajan_12

Argile24564 wrote: »

Also the fee outlined in the contract was for "a contribution to final check out costs" not cleaning.

This makes the world of difference. A fee for cleaning that was not necessary is unfair. A fee for a check out inspection, preparing the report etc that actually happened, can be fair if previously agreed.

Daughter owes the check out fee.

Re protection, check the certificate: unless its a fake, sounds like it was protected in time.. if you're sure the paperwork wasn't served then try the penalty, but best case it'll be 1x deposit if it was protected, in time, the only issue being paperwork. Worst case the LL can show it was served and you'll be saddled with court costs.

Argile24564

Thanks - i assumed they would owe the fee for inspection etc however the cleaning is what is making my blood boil. I have spoken to the scheme and they did protect the deposit so the lead tenant will be formally requesting the cleaning money back and providing before and after pictures etc. They will give the LA ten days and then will raise a dispute with the scheme if they don't comply.
They did sign to say they accepted the inspection fee though i personally doubt an inspection took place after seeing the state the flat was in when they moved in, but that's only a guess and maybe completely wrong.

Comms69

Argile24564 wrote: »

Hi

Sorry for the long post.

My daughter rented a flat and has been trying to get her deposit back for some weeks (over two months). She has just let me know what has been going on and i wonder if some of the more knowledgeable people on the board can suggest the correct way forward. - Without even reading the rest of your post - CLAIM IT THROUGH THE PROTECTION SCHEME
After a lot of phone calls and the letting agency demanding to see final bills - none of their business they have finally paid a portion of the deposit back however they have withheld a large proportion of the deposit for cleaning - did it need cleaning? Or was this one of those must have professionally cleaned clauses? and a fee for the agent checking the property once they left - that's common . It appears the fee was in the contract they signed but the cleaning is quite frankly astonishing.
When they moved in the flat was disgusting, thick layers of grease on the cooker, hairs and stains all over the bed, dirt everywhere. We took photos of the state the flat was in and whilst we cleaned it with her, we told her to call and complain to the agency. - WRITE! Always write aswell, that way theres a record. But it sounds like your daughter didn't need to clean before leaving The agency told her they could send round a cleaner but if the flat wasn't in the same state as the cleaner left it, when they left, they would be charged. - That's half true Alternatively they suggested she deal with it as is and could leave the flat as she found it. - correct! We however would not do that and the flat was cleaned from top to bottom before leaving and again we took photos of the clean flat. - Well that's your choice

I looked into the details of the deposit and couldn't find any trace, when looking the details up, on the three deposit holding companies web sites. Additionally my daughter was never given a copy of the certificate, or any other documentation, i'm lead to believe they are supposed to be supplied with. - Yes, but i'll caveat your daughter is probably quite young? She may have had it and lost it

So I called the agency, explained that the flat was cleaned and that we could find no trace of the the deposit being protected and the lady i spoke to told me they would send the certificate through. They have finally sent an email with a copy of the contract where the fee is outlined - Cleaning fee? Unenforceable. A copy of the deposit protection certificate which has not been signed by the tenant - nor does it need to be, but was it protected with-in 30 days of payment? and a copy of a cleaning bill where the invoice date is from before my daughter left the flat!!!!! - No idea
At no point has my daughter agreed for anything to be taken from the deposit apart from the fee that was in the contract they signed.

How do you think i should proceed?

Thanks for reading.

Claim through the scheme