Buying flat on basis of being a 2 bed but is showing as a one bed on the lease plan and planning app

Olistanding

Hi

I am buying two bed property in essex which is one of 3 in flats in a block. One of the bedrooms is in the basement which was converted by the seller from storage into a bedroom 10 years ago.

The planning app from when the house was split into 3 flats ( about 20 years ago) shows it as a one bed flat. The lease plan also shows it as a one bed flat with the basement as storage.

The question I have is whether it should matter to us that the planning app shows it as a one bed flat?, and if so whether we should be trying to renegotiate. Our solicitor seems to think it shouldn’t matter if we can get the lease plan corrected but our surveyor thinks this would impact on the value. We can get the lease plan changed to show it as a 2 bed but I believe the process for getting building regs and planning could take a significant amount of time. As a result our solicitor advised us to try and renegotiate the price rather than ask the seller to try and get the owner to do this . The seller has said they didn’t require planning permission to convert the basement in the bedroom and there fore didn’t apply.

Would anyone be able to advise on whether we should be trying to negotiate a reduction in the purchase price? We don’t want to blow the deal by trying to renegotiate where there is no need but also don’t want to pay over the odds and lose money when it comes to reselling. I found a similar thread in here from a couple of weeks ago but it didn’t quite answer this question.

Ta

Oil

Alter_ego

Does the basement comply with all requirements for a habitable room?

Olistanding

Hi yes it certainly appeared so on our visit, It’s a good sized double with a window and decent ceiling height.

In terms of living there it wouldn’t affect us but we were mainly concerned about whether this would impact in sell on value.

Pixie5740

Olistanding wrote: »

Hi

I am buying two bed property in essex which is one of 3 in flats in a block. One of the bedrooms is in the basement which was converted by the seller from storage into a bedroom 10 years ago.

The planning app from when the house was split into 3 flats ( about 20 years ago) shows it as a one bed flat. The lease plan also shows it as a one bed flat with the basement as storage.

The question I have is whether it should matter to us that the planning app shows it as a one bed flat?, and if so whether we should be trying to renegotiate. Our solicitor seems to think it shouldn’t matter if we can get the lease plan corrected but our surveyor thinks this would impact on the value. We can get the lease plan changed to show it as a 2 bed but I believe the process for getting building regs and planning could take a significant amount of time. As a result our solicitor advised us to try and renegotiate the price rather than ask the seller to try and get the owner to do this . The seller has said they didn’t require planning permission to convert the basement in the bedroom and there fore didn’t apply.

Would anyone be able to advise on whether we should be trying to negotiate a reduction in the purchase price? We don’t want to blow the deal by trying to renegotiate where there is no need but also don’t want to pay over the odds and lose money when it comes to reselling. I found a similar thread in here from a couple of weeks ago but it didn’t quite answer this question.

Ta

Oil

D!jà vu?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5887535/just-found-out-the-2-bed-house-i-am-buying-is-registered-as-a-1-bed

eddddy

Olistanding wrote: »

...but I believe the process for getting building regs and planning could take a significant amount of time.

Who has advised you to do this?

Assuming it was converted more than 4 years ago, planning enforcement and building regs enforcement should not be an issue.

But, if you want, you could apply for a 'Lawful Development Certificate'.
See: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200187/your_responsibilities/37/planning_permission/3


If you are concerned about the quality of the conversion - you would ask a surveyor to inspect. It sounds like you've done this, and the surveyor is happy.

Your solicitor must make sure that there is written consent from the freeholder and that the leaseplan is updated. (Although TBH, if the leaseplan is updated, that is essentially written consent.)


The value is whatever somebody is prepared to pay for the property. If you try to reduce your offer, and the seller believes that somebody else would pay more than you - they'll refuse your reduced offer.

davidmcn

I don't see planning being relevant, unless there was actually a condition about the number of bedrooms (or there have been external works which would require planning). Whether it meets the requirements for a habitable room is a building regulations matter.

Olistanding

Thanks for your responses, it is similar to the previous thread but due to the lack of specificity about where it was registed as a one bed the responses didn't quite provide the information I am looking for.I am keen to get further opinions on whether the fact planning and building regs weren't obtained (and the planning records show it as a one bed) might scare off future buyers (or lead them to try and negotiate down).

I found out on Friday that permission was not obtained from the freeholder to convert the basement into a bedroom, at the time the flat was leasehold but is now share of freehold. Does it matter that permission was not obtained from the former freeholder if it is now share of freehold?. My instinct is that it shouldnt but my solicitor thinks it does and would cause poblems when we come to sell it.

unforeseen

Being 3 flats then you only have 1/3 share of the freehold. You need to find out what the other 2 think and act accordingly.

If they don't like it then as 2/3 of the freeholders they could insist it was turned back to storage and the flat be classed as one bedroom.

eddddy

Olistanding wrote: »

I am keen to get further opinions on whether the fact planning and building regs weren't obtained (and the planning records show it as a one bed) might scare off future buyers (or lead them to try and negotiate down).

It's a matter of personal opinion.

Some buyers won't care, some buyers will see it as a negative factor and expect the price to be lower, and some buyers will walk away.

Olistanding wrote: »

at the time the flat was leasehold but is now share of freehold

The flat is still leasehold.

'Share of freehold' means you will be buying 2 things:
1. The leasehold flat
2. Joint ownership of the freehold building (with 2 other joint owners).

Olistanding wrote: »

I found out on Friday that permission was not obtained from the freeholder to convert the basement into a bedroom, at the time the flat was leasehold but is now share of freehold. Does it matter that permission was not obtained from the former freeholder if it is now share of freehold?. My instinct is that it shouldnt but my solicitor thinks it does and would cause poblems when we come to sell it.

Yes - this matters.

You must have formal written consent from the freeholder for the second bedroom - and perhaps the lease plan also needs changing.

It sounds like 3 people jointly own the freehold currently, so it is those 3 people who would give consent.

Your seller needs to arrange this - to the satisfaction of your solicitor.

(It would have been equally OK, if the previous owner of the freehold had given consent whilst they still owned the freehold - but it sounds like they didn't.)

SmashedAvacado

There are a couple of issues here - is the basement part of your flat or not? i have assumed it is. If it is, then consent to make the alterations would only be needed if required under the lease. If they were required under the lease, then my understanding is that the landlord would have to act reasonably in giving consent where there was no damage to the landlord and the works undertaken are an enhancement. This should be fairly easy to regularize with the landlord but i would insist this is done prior to exchange.


If the basement is not part of your demise then you have a bigger issue.

PasturesNew

Olistanding wrote: »

I found out on Friday that permission was not obtained from the freeholder to convert the basement into a bedroom

It might have implications with the Fire Dept if they are not aware there's a bedroom in the basement too... so check if that's relevant to update their records.