Agricultural conveyancing?

AdrianC

ellectrastar wrote: »

I do agree, it just seems like people are constantly trying to scram more money out of you!

Remember: Your solicitor is the ONLY person in the house-buying process who is working on your side to ensure that what you're buying is what you think you're buying...

ellectrastar

Davesnave wrote: »

15 acres is a good size and around the crucial amount for potential rural payments, so having a solicitor with good agricultural knowledge is worthwhile. Besides the RoWs I know you have, there may well be things like wayleave payments and easements to look into too.


Just as one example, we had a clause in our title docs that tied us to a neighbour for drainage purposes. Our solicitor wan't happy with that, and she could see no advantage for the neighbour either, so she did the liaison and work to have both titles altered.

Thanks Dave. Is the rural payments where I could claim for financial help in relation to farming? Excuse my lack of knowledge. I am learning about a lot of different things recently but haven't looked at this.


We've decided to accept the rights of way as something we can live with. (Although if this all goes through I will be setting up remote cameras everywhere!).


Wayleave is to do with utility equipment on the land isn't it? The property does receive wayleave for electric poles. I already have experience of this as a previous property I had received a wayleave payment for the same thing (albeit only one pole!). So at least I know how to sort that out!


And an easement is effectively a right of way, or a right to do something, not for the public, but for, say, a neighbour? Like, the house opposite is allowed to run their cattle over my bridge to get to their field. (That's just an example, not based on the place!)


So did you have an agricultural conveyancer for your place Dave?

Davesnave

The Rural Payments Agency used to pay subsidies under the EU's Single Payment Scheme to all landowners who claimed correctly, but since this was changed a few years ago to the Basic Payment Scheme, I think only land owners with 3.5 hectares upwards are now eligible.

We wanted as little to do with the RPA, DEFRA, the Environment Agency etc, etc as possible, so we've never claimed anything, and now we wouldn't be eligible anyway.

Power line wayleaves are usually fine; just a cheque once a year and some people in a helicopter peering at the lines occasionally, followed by some guys with chain saws, if necessary.

In comparison, BT/Openreach are a nightmare to deal with, but you may not have to. Their wayleave, if applicable, is a once only payment.

We also have a water main here, but you should see anything like that on the drainage survey CON29DW. The most important thing is not to power drive fence posts through it!

We have a couple of septic tank drainage fields ending on our land which were not in any paperwork, so our solicitor didn't know of their existence. They've been there long enough for their owners to claim a prescriptive easement for the discharge, but fortunately, neither can ever comply with modern regulations, so they'll be 'disappearing' in the fullness of time!

Your land may well have easements like the one you made up, and any official ones should be documented. It takes 20 years to create a prescriptive easement.

Our solicitor was very experienced in the transfer of landed property, but she dealt with 'ordinary' houses too. The senior partner in the business delegated our conveyancing to her.


We needed advice on the agricultural tie aspect, which is a complication you do not seem to have, though it was a means by which many bungalows were built in rural places. A large number of those bungalows were of concrete panel construction and are nearing the end of their useful lives, but you will have looked into that via your surveyor. I'm sure.

ellectrastar

Apparently the bungalow is a cavity-filled concrete block and render job. The original property (which has been utilised as a garage) was falling down and this one was built in the late 70s to replace it. Guess the render saves on the costs as you don't have to brick it on the exterior.


The only wayleave mentioned by the vendor was the electric poles.



There is a water main coming onto the land to service the property; this is via neighbouring land.


Out of interest, because you've mentioned them, do you know if a prescriptive easement can be recorded on provision of a statutory declaration? As an example, if the current owners made a declaration in relation to something they had been doing for over 20 years (unimpeded and unchallenged etc), and then we bought the place, could we use that declaration to apply for a prescriptive easement to be added the the title deed?


And if you had a prescriptive easement, say in relation to access to the property, and it was registered on your title deeds, is this always enforceable and irrevocable?


Apologies as you may not know... but then again, you might!

Davesnave

ellectrastar wrote: »

Out of interest, because you've mentioned them, do you know if a prescriptive easement can be recorded on provision of a statutory declaration? As an example, if the current owners made a declaration in relation to something they had been doing for over 20 years (unimpeded and unchallenged etc), and then we bought the place, could we use that declaration to apply for a prescriptive easement to be added the the title deed?


And if you had a prescriptive easement, say in relation to access to the property, and it was registered on your title deeds, is this always enforceable and irrevocable?

Apologies as you may not know... but then again, you might!

I think this is definitely one for your solicitor, but I don't think the access could be challenged successfully if people have been driving in and out of the property since the 1970s, when it became a residence. This is exactly the sort of thing one needs an experienced conveyancer for.

I would certainly obtain statutory declarations if the paperwork is silent on access.

We're lucky here, because the landowner kept the bungalow when he sold off much of the surrounding property & land. He didn't stint on the rights that go with it!


Yours sounds very similar to our place in construction. Often, these bungalows were thrown together without much thought or care, but I've been pleasantly surprised. Hopefully, you will be too.

jamesperrett

A good firm of solicitors will have specialists in different areas. In my experience there is a whole world of difference between ordinary conveyancing solicitors and solicitors that deal with commercial property - the commercial property solicitors are far more switched on and proactive (although that comes at a price).

Are there any agricultural shows coming up in the area of your purchase? Solicitors who work with agricultural property will often have a stand at these shows.

ellectrastar

Davesnave wrote: »

I think this is definitely one for your solicitor, but I don't think the access could be challenged successfully if people have been driving in and out of the property since the 1970s, when it became a residence. This is exactly the sort of thing one needs an experienced conveyancer for.

I would certainly obtain statutory declarations if the paperwork is silent on access.

We're lucky here, because the landowner kept the bungalow when he sold off much of the surrounding property & land. He didn't stint on the rights that go with it!


Yours sounds very similar to our place in construction. Often, these bungalows were thrown together without much thought or care, but I've been pleasantly surprised. Hopefully, you will be too.

From what I know about construction it's the concrete blocks that keep a place up and the bricks are just to make it pretty! (I'm sure they serve as an extra layer in their own right but you get my meaning.)


Alledgedly this area was part of a large estate that was sold off in lots of pieces, and it appears no one is a registered as owning the access track. It has been used for a long period of time, but I know (and was surprised when I found out) that just because it's always been used in the past doesn't automatically mean you always can in the future.


Hopefully I will get somewhere with the conveyancing side and get this moving. We feel like we're getting nowhere. The conveyancer has been pretty poor in communicating. And conveniently has a day off today. I had a guesstimate from another one who gave me a figure of £2,000 plus disbursements. Which is way more than double what we anticipated. Just getting fed up of it all!

Davesnave

Can't remember what our bill was now, but I think knowing that you've covered as many potential pitfalls as possible is worth it, given the typical purchase price.



As we found, land will probably throw up a few extra complications no one anticipates, like the illegally-moved telegraph pole our neighbour somehow managed to spirit away from a place where he decided to build!