Bank freeze account

Johnwmv86

Hello, this is my first post and I will try and get to the point and keep it as brief as I can and get to the point as there is a LOT of detail regarding my problem.

My names stephen and I opened a bank account with nationwide about a year ago and hardly ever really used it other than to pay for my mortgage and some other DD’s.

On the 22nd of June I sold my car via eBay and received payment for it through PayPal (as PayPal is safe) . I received the funds for the vehicle which was £18000. PayPal sent me an email and explained the payment was on hold for 24 hours for security purposes and told me not to release the car. That was fine, 24 hours passed and I then received an email from PayPal to say that the funds had cleared and I was able to release the item (car). I contacted the buyer and they then picked the vehicle up to which they did. I then proceeded to withdraw the funds from my PayPal to my bank to which again I received an email from PayPal to say that it could take upto 72 hours for further security checks. That was great. On the 25 of June 2018 I received an email from PayPal to say the funds had been withdrawn to my bank account (nationwide). So as you would do I checked my account and it was there.l so it was time to then withdraw the funds and buy a newer car.........

I phoned the bank on the 25th of June 2018 to book in advanceto go in and make the withdrawal, it was all fine then all of a sudden the lady told me on the phone that my account was frozen as of today! Baffled and unaware why I asked her for a reason as to why? She then told me I would need to contact the “fraud department”.

I did this and spoke to an advisor and he was asking where the money came from etc blah blah blah. So I explained everything to him. He asked for proof of the transaction. So I emailed him emails between myself and PayPal, transaction ID’s, the eBay ad and everything else I could possibly give him.

5 working days then had passed and I was told he couldn’t allow me to transact u till he had the “ok” from another department so that was fine.

To cut a very long story short, literally hours and hours of phone calls to the fraud department, nationwide complaints department and I also have a claim the the FSO.

It has now been 65 days since the account was frozen, I still get the same answer from the bank of I phone “we have not yet made a decision and we will contact you when we do” if you question who’s making the decision or why it’s taking so long you are met with “nationwide are meeting the statutory and legal obligations and can’t allow for you to transact at this point”

The lady at the FSO has received the case file from the bank and she then asked me last week if I could send her all the emails from PayPal, transaction ID’s and listing etc which I then done, although I had already sent this to the bank weeks ago......which should have been on the cae file?

I have done a LOT of research and from what I can see is the bank submit a SAR suspicious activity report the the NCA national crime agency. They then have 7 working days to reply to the bank to give them authorisation to complete the transaction. If they do not then you enter a monotorium period which then lasts for a 31 calendar days for the NCA to investigate.

This money is not fraudulent, the money is legitimate, I simply sold a car, received the money via PayPal and withdrew it to my bank. What have I done wrong? I can not find any other story the same as mines or that has taken as long!

No one wants to tell me anything and no ones I’m any hurry! Th bank did not even notify me that they had stopped my mortgage payments and other DD’s.

What is going on? I feel as though I’m being investigated for legitimate money through the genuine sale of a car. It has left me without a car for the past 65 days.

I can’t afford to goto a lawyer hence why I went to the FSO. But they are in no grey hurry. The FSO keep telling me that thierselves and the bank are working closely and as quickly as possible to resolve it. What I can’t get my head around is 1. Resolve what 2. What on earth can take this long? I can’t show or prove to them anymore than I have about the sale, nothing going to change wether it be 65 days or 6500 days. It’s still going to be the same sale, same transaction and same proof!

Robin9

From where you sit the money may not appear to be fraudulent but you don't know where your car purchaser got the money from do you?

Shakin_Steve

In the respect of suspected/possible fraudulent transactions, banks are a law unto themselves. They are under the cosh from various authorities with reference to money laundering and will not risk a big fine or reputational damage.
Little as it seems, I'm surprised they've told you as much as they have.
It's a case of waiting, I'm afraid. I take it you have access to additional funding?

masonic

Well Stephen, or is it John, I thought your story was going to end in the buyer alleging non-delivery of the item and claiming a refund from Paypal, or the buyer using a fraudulent payment method to fund the payment. I think you were very brave to accept Paypal as a payment option when selling something this high value and which the buyer presumably collected in person.

Hopefully the funds transferred through Paypal will turn out not to be dodgy and your money will be released. No doubt having Paypal involved in the transaction has made it more difficult than if the transfer was directly between two mainstream banks, or via banker's draft or cash.

18cc

Agree with above post you are very lucky not to have had a fraudulent buyer on eBay t

the golden rule is this - always always require cash payments for large value transactions on eBay - it's the wild west out there

meer53

How do you know the money is legitimate ? The answer is you don't. The bank will be tracing the source of the money and until they are happy it's "clean" it's just a waiting game for you. The bank will not give you any more information, neither will the FOS.

Terry_Towelling

If the bank needs information about the source of the money they may be able to get the help of DVLA because the new owner can be traced through the registration details - if they didn't give false information about themselves at the time of sale.

Has DVLA written to you to confirm receipt of your part of the V5 registration document. Can you remember anything about the name and address of the buyer?

It might help - it might not.

jonnygee2

I have done a LOT of research and from what I can see is the bank submit a SAR suspicious activity report the the NCA national crime agency. They then have 7 working days to reply to the bank to give them authorisation to complete the transaction. If they do not then you enter a monotorium period which then lasts for a 31 calendar days for the NCA to investigate.

Bingo. But realistically it often lasts much longer than this. The NCA are slow.

To cut a very long story short, literally hours and hours of phone calls to the fraud department, nationwide complaints department and I also have a claim the the FSO.

You are wasting your time. There is nothing they can do, it would be illegal for them to tell you what's going on and it would be illegal for them to take any action with the frozen funds until the NCA gets back to them and tells them what to do with your money.

I can’t afford to go to a lawyer

That would be pointless too. They wouldn't be able to help you, the banks actions are perfectly legal.

The result will be one of three options;

1. Your money will be put in your account and your account unfrozen
2. Your money will be returned, but your account closed (you won't be told why)
3. Your money will be returned to source (to the sender), and your account closed

As we have no indication as to what is being investigated it is impossible to predict the result. You will have to wait.

Johnwmv86

Thankyou for the replies.

I understand what people are saying as far as “don’t accept payment through PayPal” BUT PayPal I itialy sent me an email to say not to release the car until they had done their security checks. The person told me they sold their car through eBay and PayPal so they had the funds available in their own PayPal account.

Surely if PayPal put th funds on hold when it was initially sent to me and not made available to me until they done their checks then PayPal were satisfied that the funds where legitimate, that the person who were sending me the funds was legitimate etc. As at the end of the day PayPal would be the ones set out to lose the money due to buyer and seller protection?

It’s now 71 days.........surely to god you would imagine that there would be some light?

masonic

Johnwmv86 wrote: »

Surely if PayPal put th funds on hold when it was initially sent to me and not made available to me until they done their checks then PayPal were satisfied that the funds where legitimate, that the person who were sending me the funds was legitimate etc. As at the end of the day PayPal would be the ones set out to lose the money due to buyer and seller protection?

It’s now 71 days.........surely to god you would imagine that there would be some light?

Paypal is not authorised and regulated by UK authorities. It is a company registered and authorised in Luxembourg. It holds EEA passporting rights to offer products and services in the UK. The regulatory framework Paypal operates within will be fairly well aligned with the UK, but there may be differences in the way certain EU directives have been ratified and passed into law. I'm speculating, but that could be the reason why additional checks are now needed.

In terms of buyer and seller protection, you'll be aware that there is no buyer or seller protection available for the sale of cars. This issue with therefore not affect Paypal in the slightest and your only recourse will be to take legal action against the buyer if the money is not released.

It might be worth you reviewing the seller protection policy to familiarise you with what is and is not covered by the policy. In particular:
"11.1 What is PayPal seller protection?
If you are the recipient of a payment made by a customer ("Payment Recipient"), we may reimburse you an amount for Claims, Chargebacks, or Reversals made against you based on the following reasons:
a. A Chargeback or Reversal was issued against you for the reason of an “Unauthorised Payment” (except for any “Unauthorised Payment” initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal)"

It is unlikely that this would constitute a Chargeback or Reversal for the reason of Unauthorised Payment - and even if it did, it definitely wasn't initiated in an environment hosted by Paypal. The other reason is 'item not received', which doesn't apply in this case.

Unfortunately there is no way of knowing what the outcome will be or how long it will take to reach.

Kateyates

Hi Stephen

Just wondering if you managed to get this sorted?

Kate