Claim Form - Originated from PCN where machine was broken.

iiydro

(As per Newbies post - creating a topic when help is needed. I've left out identifiable information for obvious reason).

Today I received my first (of likely two) court claim forms for PCNs I received while visiting a local business - a tutor, parking in a car park managed by a private car park operator.

I received a PCN the first week as I was running late to my tutoring lesson, parked in the usual spot and noticed the machine had a black bin liner over it. Change in hand, no idea what to do - I left my car. The following week, expecting the machine to be fixed, change in hand once more, the machine still had a black bin liner over it. I pull off the bin liner to discover the guts of the machine was missing and it wasn't working. I did however find a phone number, where I called to report the machine was broken.
On the call I was told I could do a debit card payment over the phone - not something I wanted to do.

I protested both PCNs in writing, included pictures in my letters to the company stating the machines were broken and I disclosed a cheque made payable to the company equal to the cost of my 2x two hour stay on both days. The reply simply shot down my appeal, said to appeal once more with the IPC. I took to the forums here to review the IPC etc and pretty much came to the conclusion that it is pointless appealing to them. So I assumed the company would get on with taking legal action.

Debt letters came and I ignored them.
A letter from the original company came regarding intent to claim via the court. I ignored this because my mind had a million other things to contend with - unsure if this was wise, but I'm here now. The court has sent a claim form. Arrived today, so I have about 14 days to muster a defense etc.
For me, I need help understanding a few things. Is this even defend able?
As in my eyes, I appealed before they had to pay the DVLA for my details. I appealed on grounds that their machine wasn't working - which is how people paid for the parking. In my appeal I offered them the cost of parking and admitted yes I had parked there, take my money. Their greed for me has got me to this place right now.

P.S Oh, I did read somewhere that the myparkingcharge PCNs are not the genuine article or something? Unsure if that is the case?

Coupon-mad

Today I received my first (of likely two) court claim forms for PCNs I received while visiting a local business - a tutor, parking in a car park managed by a private car park operator.

They should not file 2 separate claims - search the forum for res judicata.

I protested both PCNs in writing, included pictures in my letters to the company stating the machines were broken and I disclosed a cheque made payable to the company equal to the cost of my 2x two hour stay on both days. The reply simply shot down my appeal, said to appeal once more with the IPC. I took to the forums here to review the IPC etc and pretty much came to the conclusion that it is pointless appealing to them. So I assumed the company would get on with taking legal action.

That's good, you didn't ignore it, offered to pay the tariff even though the machines had been broken.

Yes this is defendable, they all are. We see wins in 99% of defended cases here.

Arrived today, so I have about 14 days to muster a defense etc.

Defence.

You'll have double that time, once you've done the AOS online as the NEWBIES thread post #2 show you how to do, in pictures in a link.

I did read somewhere that the myparkingcharge PCNs are not the genuine article or something?

Those bits of paper say they are not a parking charge, so part of your defence can mention you received no PCN at all. But your main defence will be the broken machines so (after reading the NEWBIES thread 2nd post all about AOS and court/defence stages) then search the forum for defence machine broken and adapt one, and show us your draft once you have extended the time to 28 days.

If the 2nd PCN is at LBCCC stage, reply to that one/the solicitor, and talk about res judicata and the fact they are already taking a claim to court (claim number xxxxxxx) and they cannot file a second claim which turns on exactly the same facts, and their failure to bring both charges to court under the same claim means that it is reasonable to require them to put the second one 'on hold'.

If they do not, you will seek a strike out of the second claim or ask the court to merge them into one case/one hearing.

But your priority is doing the AOS for the one that has a claim, first, to give you a little space.

iiydro

Thank you for your reply Coupon-Mad. I'm in the process of the AOS now. Curious if it is better for me to defend all of the claim or part. The part being the balance they seek - the £2.00 charge which I admit to owing.

Also, the second claim did arrive. I will look for res judicata on the forum.

Coupon-mad

I don't think you have read the AOS guide in the NEWBIES thread, if you are asking that. Obviously you defend the entire claim, and I am sure the pictorial walk-through AOS link show you every page and what to tick.

iiydro

Ah apologies. I hadn't scrolled to the next page of the PDF to see that point. I see that now.

Could I ask, in relation to the res judicata for the second claim. Do I submit that via the money claim website or do I send a letter to the parking operator? As I can't find any basis or steps for this on the newbies post etc. These posts/replies of yours which I found, refer to the letter before court.

(Unable to post links due to being a new member, however I refer to these posts:)
'Letter of Claim & County Court Help' by TROPICALDREAM.
Also 'Received over 10 tickets, need help!' by missyjingles.

Thank you again

Snakes_Belly

You have to register with the Government gateway and then you can access the site.

I have just posted a defence regarding a machine that was not working. It's in the progress stage at the moment. There are some cases on my thread that relate to faulty machines. As a matter of interest what did the PPC say you should have done?

iiydro

Snakes_Belly wrote: »

You have to register with the Government gateway and then you can access the site.

I have just posted a defence regarding a machine that was not working. It's in the progress stage at the moment. There are some cases on my thread that relate to faulty machines. As a matter of interest what did the PPC say you should have done?

Registered and logged the AOS. Just unsure where to play the res juridicta on the second claim.

The PPC said I should of made a debit card payment over the phone, which also charged an additional fee. I didn't want to give my debit card details out over the phone - or should I have had to pay an additional fee. Unfortunately this was pre-PCI regulation Jan 1st of this year, so I can't play the PCI card in my case.

Snakes_Belly

Frustration of contract is one of the defences for a faulty machine. There are a couple of cases on my thread Link Parking V Mr N and Camden V Prendi.

Problem when paying for parking with a card using telephone details from a vandalised machine is a bit risky. They could have stripped your bank account.

Coupon-mad

Just unsure where to play the res juridicata on the second claim.

If both have reached claim stage already, then you put a covering letter with everything you file & serve from now on, asking for a Judge to review the cases (state both claim numbers) and merge them.

System

Frustration of contract is one of the defences for a faulty machine. There are a couple of cases on my thread Link Parking V Mr N and Camden V Prendi.

The rule with "frustration" is was there an alternative means of completing the contract. There was and there were instructions on the signs about what to do. The job of the court is to find if there was a contract and on what terms.

Problem when paying for parking with a card using telephone details from a vandalised machine is a bit risky. They could have stripped your bank account.

Won't fly. The OP willingly accepted the parking offered but has given no reasonable excuse (as it will be seen as one) for the payment not to be made.

Some fancy footwork required on this one - or a lucky judge.

And again I'm going to disagree with you CM for the following reasons

1. With the first event, there is a defence of not being able to discern the alternative payment method. There was a number to report a fault and only when it was called, an alternative method was offered. Frustration may apply.

2. In the second case, the OP was given clear instructions on what to do after checking the signs and "frustration" cannot apply.

So the OP would be better letting the cases go in separately and run the first on a different approach to the second. The WS for the first may also help provide additional ammunition for the second case.

Warning though: All of the above presumes the signs were not clear and there was NOT a specific instruction on the signs with regards to machine failure.

If the OP could post up pics of the signs, then it will all be clearer ... or they could just through a template at it.

iiydro

Just to add to the signage, I have pictures but it doesn't show my cars location in relation to the meter or signage etc. I took a picture of the meter being vandalised / broken and mid way through repair.

I will AOS on the second claim but won't be able to do anything until I am back from holiday in over a week.
Accepting the AOS should give me 33 days. Including the 5 days of service grace from when the letter was printed right? Bringing me to near the end of the month to submit defense for both.

Also the huge signage was out of sight from the parking position. I didn't take pictures back then of signage in the position I parked in. I can gain these Friday. You can however see the large sign when stood at the pay machine and it does state to call by telephone - I didn't want to use an over the phone method the first week. The second week, the machine wasn't repaired and I didn't have my debit card on me.

On the basis of a) I can gain a statement from a local business owner who can vouch I was in a tutor session for the duration of the stay, b) the machine was 'gutless' - a black bin liner was positioned over it and c) I didn't trust the company to use my debit card via their mobile method. d) The ticket I received was a My Parking Charge ticket - is that even a PCN? e) If a company can't repair their machine within one working week, then should they really be issuing tickets at all (for the second week); if people can't use their preferred method or only method of payment?