Parking & Property Management Ltd – Should I pay the fine I have received?

nosferatu1001

CHeck what it exactly says. It wont be "your property" almost certainly, but something like you have an exclusive right to...

Check anything that allows them to vary the rules in use.

RTel10

I own the apartment and in addition to it the parking space. I will check though.

RTel10

Recent correspondence:

Vinny,

As I expected my appeal was declined, however I will not be paying the cowboy penalty charge your henchmen have issued me.

Should I receive any further correspondence from yourself or p and p management I will file a harassment suit which comes under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

Furthermore, after speaking to several of my neighbors, we are in agreement that we no longer want our private land being monitored and trespassed on with your henchmen loitering with intent in the middle of the night! moving forward, when they are seen in the car park by myself or my neighbors, we will be contacting the police to inform of the trespassing.

I have spoken to my solicitor, he has suggested filing court proceedings for damages for trespass and an injunction to prevent further trespass, and costs as per the case of Read ‘Roger Davey v UKPC’.

My neighbors and I have also collectively raised our concerns with Mackenzie Homes Aftersales, and made them aware of our desire to abolish the parking permit requirement.

Regards,

Vinny's response:

In relation to your email, I am going to leave it in your capable hands to deal with as you see fit. PPM Operative who issued the PCN has done nothing wrong, if you think its neat to blame me or any of the Operatives for your mistake we are happy to take the blame . As per appeals decision ticket will stand and it will run its course. Furthermore you have also declined the offer I made as a gesture of goodwill. There is no case of trespass at all as the contract signed by the landowners authorises PPM Operatives to patrol the car park. PP and to deal with offending vehicles accordingly. PPM offered all residents choice to opt out of the enforcement regime which has been exercised by you now. If you had availed this option earlier we would not be exchanging emails.

In regards to our services / termination, please note that there is a contract in place and we will seek further instructions from our clients. As things stand your allocated bay is no longer part of the enforcement regime.

Kind Regards

Vinny

Loadsofchildren123

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

CHeck what it exactly says. It wont be "your property" almost certainly, but something like you have an exclusive right to...

Check anything that allows them to vary the rules in use.

It depends.
Some leases just grant rights over an identified space.
Others do include the parking space in the demised property, so you do own it. I've seen both on here on an equally frequent basis.
Check your lease.


Having said that, it doesn't really make much difference if you own it or have exclusive rights over it. The freeholder and/or MC/MA imposes regulations in the lease that relate to both your own property and the common parts, and elsewhere in teh lease there will be a right to introduce new regulations for the good management of the development. This is the clause you need to look at very carefully. What exactly does it say about the right to introduce new regs, and does it define the areas/things these are limited to? How are the existing regulations defined? What sort of things do they deal with? What parts of the development do they relate to?


The parking co will say this clause allows new parking regs.
You will have to show it doesn't, with reference to the definitions and the precise wording of the clauses.
Even if parking regs come under the definition, the right to introduce new regs does NOT include the right to impose on you a contractual relationship with a third party or levy a separate payment for breaching it. The only thing they can charge you is the service charge/ground rent.


Please read hairray's thread and another one I will link in a minute. hairray was a leaseholder, not sure about the second one. The last one discovered a clause in the parking contract which said that the MC/MA could demand the cancellation of tickets given to genuine residents.


You could also say this was implied because you provided your reg for a whitelist. what's the point of a whitelist if they ticket you?

Coupon-mad

Dear Vinny,

I am the landowner.

I own that space, and your company is operating a business illegally on my land, and causing a private nuisance, which is far from 'neat' - it is actionable.

Yours sincerely,

Loadsofchildren123

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74725841#Comment_74725841
This is the other one

Loadsofchildren123

You need to go in quite firmly here.
NeilCr who tries to see reason in the MC/MA because he has some experience of trying to manage parking in a development will recommend a firm but polite approach.
Be polite, but you will probably have to go at them like a terrier and not let it go. The link above, that poster had to push and push and push until he finally discovered that they had the right to make the PPC cancel. If he hadn't pushed so hard he'd have ended up paying or being sued. The silly front office staff at the MC/MA didn't know what they were talking about and wouldn't pass him further up the food chain.

Loadsofchildren123

Precedent Letters before Claim to the PPC and to the MC/MA are in hairray's thread

NeilCr

Hmm

Have you actually spoken to your solicitor?

In your OP you say that Mackenzie Homes are sympathetic and think your ticket should be waived. I guess (?) that they are the freeholder and, therefore, may be party to the contract with the PPC and may have the power to authorise cancellation of the ticket. Have you asked them if they can?

If they are the freeholder the ManCo are likely employed by them.

Otherwise please do look into the issues and questions raised by LoadsofChildren and others re what the lease says.

Given the stance of MacKenzie Homes I reckon it's worth another conversation with them.