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Small Claims Court Letter - N.Ireland. - Page 6

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Small Claims Court Letter - N.Ireland.

edited 27 September 2018 at 2:38PM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
120 replies 5.9K views
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  • Is the above a better stab at it?
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    (Should I amend this if I kept the letters? If so, how so?)
    No that's fine. And much better.

    Is 'Respondent' the right term in NI? Did you find that from your Googling? Here we say Defendant but Respondent might be right (you will need to be sure, not us!).

    You need a point 8 (it's missing!). Could be:
    8. The Respondent/Defendant cannot be held liable for the conduct on private land, of an unknown driver of a car for which he happens to be the registered keeper.

    8.1. Whilst it is a fact that an appeals service like POPLA and Schedule 4 of the 'POFA 2012' do not apply in NI, it is worth stating that the position re 'Understanding Keeper Liability' was confirmed by 'parking law expert' barrister and erstwhile POPLA/PATAS Lead Adjudicator, Henry Greenslade, in his Annual Report in 2015, which confirms that without the POFA, there is no lawful presumption that a registered keeper was the driver on any one occasion, without evidence.

    8.2. Since this is a charge 'outwith the POFA (due to the event's location outside England/Wales) The Claimant is put to strict proof of their evidence that they are relying on to try to hold the Defendant liable, and under which rule of law.

    8.3. It is denied that the law of agency can be applied to a driver who - I can say as registered keeper - must have been an individual insured to drive and acting in their own interests, not 'on behalf of the registered keeper' by any stretch. I cannot assist the Claimant with any knowledge of who was driving on an occasion many months ago, and have no obligation to name a driver to a private firm, even if I knew.

    8.4. It is the Claimant's claim to evidence on the balance of probabilities, and the fact that any insured driver with my permission (not just those on my insurance policy) could drive this car, means they cannot tip that balance and have no cause of action against the Defendant.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • GrimbleGrimble Forumite
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    Also if the sign says £100 they cannot inflate the contract price, called inflated claim.
  • edited 26 September 2018 at 2:25PM
    MercurialNo.10MercurialNo.10 Forumite
    63 posts
    edited 26 September 2018 at 2:25PM
    It is claimant and respondent here, I have also notified the Consumer Council who are keen to keep an eye on this case should it go to court, as it seems it might be fresh ground.

    Will be submitting this dispute today.

    Thank you all for your kindnesses! It is appreciated.

    Will amend and post new draft.

    Edit. Applicant and Respondent at this stage it would seem.
  • edited 26 September 2018 at 1:52PM
    MercurialNo.10MercurialNo.10 Forumite
    63 posts
    edited 26 September 2018 at 1:52PM
    Thinking this....


    I, XXXXXXXXX, am the Respondent in this claim.

    1. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge there are true to the best of my information and belief.


    2. I am neither liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, nor any amount at all and this is my statement.


    3. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, which is routinely used by more than one person. The claim relates to an alleged debt arising from a driver’s/drivers' alleged breach of contract when parking at XXXXXXX Pay and Display Car Park.

    4. The dates in question are unremarkable and as a result I have no recollection of the circumstances surrounding these events and have been unable to identify the driver (or drivers) responsible.


    5. I recall receiving some letters in the post from the Claimant, which I ignored as I believed them to be scam letters/junk mail due to the excessive amounts being claimed and gross inaccuracies contained therin. I felt vindicated in that decision when I received no further letters or contact of any kind from the Claimant on this matter for a period.


    6. I was then surprised to receive
    further correspondence theatening court action. Following advice, I have investigated the potential reasons why I may have received this and it would appear that the Claimant and similar parking companies are submitting numerous court claims for old “parking charges” and are inappropriately using the Court system as a form of debt collection to threaten/bully people in Northern Ireland and Great Britain into paying out substantial sums of money. Subsequently I have also made contact with the Consumer Council of Northern Ireland.


    7. I felt unable to engage with a fair and impartial appeals process as any appeal would have been an internal process by XXXXX Ltd. The independent body, POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) does not function in Northern Ireland as the Protection of Freedoms Act (2012) (abbr. POFA 2012) does not apply here.


    8. The Respondent cannot be held liable for the conduct on private land, of an unknown driver of a car for which he happens to be the registered keeper.


    8.1. Whilst it is a fact that an appeals service like POPLA and Schedule 4 of the 'POFA 2012' do not apply in Northern Ireland, it is worth stating that the position re : 'Understanding Keeper Liability' was confirmed by 'parking law expert' barrister and erstwhile POPLA/PATAS (Parking and Traffic Appeals Service) Lead Adjudicator, Henry Greenslade, in his Annual Report in 2015, which confirms that without 'POFA 2012', there is no lawful presumption that a registered keeper was the driver on any one occasion, without evidence.

    8.2. Since this is a charge outside of the Protection of Freedoms Act (2012) (due to the event's location being outside England/Wales), the Claimant is put to strict proof of their evidence that they are relying on to try to hold the Respondent liable, and under which rule of law.

    8.3. It is denied that the law of agency can be applied to a driver who - I can say as the registered keeper - must have been an individual insured to drive and acting in their own interests, not 'on behalf of the registered keeper' by any stretch. I can not assist the Claimant with any knowledge of who was driving on occasions many months ago, and have no obligation to name any driver to a private firm, even if I had knowledge of the identity/identities of any driving party

    8.4. It is the Claimant's claim to evidence on the balance of probabilities, and the fact that any insured driver with my permission (not just those on my insurance policy) could drive this car, means they cannot fairly tip that balance and have no cause of action against the Respondent.

    9. The sign that the Claimant says forms the contract is predominantly a wall of extremely small font text, from which a driver in a vehicle could not possibly understand and therefore can not accept the terms of, additionally this sign is on the other side of the site far away from the entrance.


    I believe the facts stated in this statement to be true.!


    Signed……………………..



    Dated………………………
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  • edited 26 September 2018 at 8:06PM
    MercurialNo.10MercurialNo.10 Forumite
    63 posts
    edited 26 September 2018 at 8:06PM
    So now we wait...

    I'll upload a redacted PDF at some point and the lettering of some of their auto-threats.

    The Consumer Council are very interested in this case, have been in touch with a lovely girl and I've begun collecting evidence, will be able to get Witness Statements about the car park site and am pretty sure someone legal might fancy this (I'm not earning much and it'd be a landmark case).

    I've a feeling as a BPA member, they're following their Code of Practice, but that falls apart at a certain obvious point in Northern Ireland.

    Edit: If they go to Court, it will.be a massive story win or lose which will highlight the issue of driver, not keeper, liability in Northern Ireland and potentially see them lose more money through increased awareness of the law, along with more legal costs. I am not afraid to fight for my legal rights.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    The Consumer Council are very interested in this case, have been in touch with a lovely girl and I've begun collecting evidence, will be able to get Witness Statements about the car park site and am pretty sure someone legal might fancy this (I'm not earning much and it'd be a landmark case).
    Nice pressure!

    Can you share this with the other person with the NI Claim, please? Send them a pm and encourage them to also put their evidence to the Consumer Council - the person whose thread we linked for you to see I think, way back.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
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  • edited 30 October 2018 at 9:22PM
    MercurialNo.10MercurialNo.10 Forumite
    63 posts
    edited 30 October 2018 at 9:22PM
    Well, all this illegal posturing on the PPC's part has put me under tremendous pressure, come to think of it I may have to document this with my very friendly and helpful GP...I'm feeling rather anxious.

    I've a bit to do, but will pop back on later and check that thread etc.
  • edited 26 September 2018 at 8:21PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    edited 26 September 2018 at 8:21PM
    come to think of it I may have to document this with my very friendly and helpful GP...I'm feeling rather anxious.
    Didn't you have some emails or Facebook posts you were now planning to send to your family and friends, detailing your distress...? Then you might print them off, to calm you down...

    Thing is, if the defence has already been submitted, then a counter claim is too late to join it now, without larger cost than a counter claim fee when it accompanies the defence.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Notice to Keeper
    https://docdro.id/cheqg9Y

    Final Reminder
    https://docdro.id/ADF6Uyr

    Has anyone noticed what I have?
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