tenancy changes

mark6668

Hi all this is my 1st post and looking for some advice


we are tenants in a privately rented house our original contract was a 6 month AST starting mid sept 2013 just before the 1st 6 months had expired our LL renewed our tenancy with a 12 month AST from mid March 2014 since then we have had no renewals its just kept rolling over

until last week we where contacted by our LL saying she was planning on selling the house and needed to have some pictures taken by the estate agent which was fine with us they have been taken and today we had a phone call saying she decided not to sell but she was putting up the rent as of september

My questions are does the contract auto renew for a further 12 months if no new contract is signed
can she change the rent with such short notice because as I read the rules regarding tenancies

changes cannot be made until the end of a fixed term but we have NO fixed term

thanks all

G_M

From March 2015 you have had a 'periodic tenancy'. That means it rolls on month by month. Read:

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Did the last tenancy agreement you signed have a clause about rent increases? If yes, quote it here for us. Word for word.

The rent cannot be increased without warning - that usually means at least a full 'period'. What was the exact start and end dates of your last fixed term?

Also read:

* Rent increases: when & how can rent be increased?

mark6668

the last contract we signed was from
14th March 2014 and for 12 months with No end date
and their is no section regarding the rent increases

it is a very very basic contract

saajan_12

mark6668 wrote: »

Hi all this is my 1st post and looking for some advice

we are tenants in a privately rented house our original contract was a 6 month AST starting mid sept 2013 just before the 1st 6 months had expired our LL renewed our tenancy with a 12 month AST from mid March 2014 since then we have had no renewals its just kept rolling over - okay, please quote any terms in the latest fixed term agreement ie the 12 month one, about
a) what happens after the fixed term
b) rent increases


until last week we where contacted by our LL saying she was planning on selling the house and needed to have some pictures taken by the estate agent which was fine with us they have been taken and today we had a phone call saying she decided not to sell but she was putting up the rent as of september - If the tenancy agreement allows for rent increases then she can insist on this. If not, she really means she is asking to increase the rent. You can agree or refuse in which case she'd have to serve formal notice.

My questions are does the contract auto renew for a further 12 months if no new contract is signed - No, it goes into a MONTHLY rolling periodic tenancy. So each tenancy period is 1 month long. The type of periodic tenancy depends on whether your latest fixed term contract mentions anything about what happens after: yes-> CPT, no-> SPT.
can she change the rent with such short notice because as I read the rules regarding tenancies changes cannot be made until the end of a fixed term but we have NO fixed term - She can change rent if you agree. If you don't agree, she must serve Section 13 notice giving you 1 full tenancy period notice of the increase, ie if she served it today then it would take effect from the period starting Oct.

thanks all

Responses in line. In general, you can
a) agree to the increase and just start paying it
b) negotiate a lower increase with the LL and start paying it
c) refuse -> LL can then serve a Section 13 notice stating the new rent with 1 tenancy period notice.

Then, you can
d) comply and start paying the new rent 1 tenancy period after the notice
e) challenge it and have a review committee decide whether the increase is reasonable. IF they decide all/some of the increase is then you'll have to start paying that or (eventually) be evicted.

InterestedParty2018

Sorry to hijack this post somewhat, but I have a question for G_M. I have read the guides you have previously produced/linked.

May I ask if I understand something correctly:

- Prior to the "natural" end a fixed term AST (eg for a year, rent paid monthly), the landlord must issue a specific notice (at a specific time) if s/he wants the actual tenancy to terminate and the tenants to vacate.
- If the landlord fails to issue the notice, and does not formally agree a new fixed term, the automatic default is that the tenants continue occupying the property on a periodic tenancy.
- The alternative being that at the time of expiry, that both landlord and tenant negotiate a further fixed term and rent, and this can then start after expiry of the original tenancy. (and this exercise to continue each time the fixed term expires.)

To further seek confirmation:
A periodic tenancy is simply an extension of the existing tenancy, and tenancy terms. The landlord can not vary any terms (ie cannot increase the rent) and if the either party wishes to terminate they need to serve the appropriate notice. (eg one month)

The pro's & cons' are then surely:

- With a periodic tenancy, the tenants have "security" of the fixed rent until the landlords notice (if they serve it) expires. However, the tenants do not have "security" of a longer term occupancy. ie if they renewed a new fixed term tenancy for a further year, they will have comfort of the landlord not being able to force them out until at least the end. (subject to no other breaches of course.)

- A landlord who is a "short term landlord for a fixed period" (ie someone who has temporarily let out their property whilst abroad for example), would have to be very careful about serving the correct notices at the correct time to ensure vacant possession when needed. An investment landlord however may be a little more lax, in so far as if they are happy for the tenant to stay on (with no hike in the rent), then they can simply continue until eventually one party wants to end it with the appropriate notice?
- Of course the downside for the landlord is that until a new tenancy agreement is agreed, they cant increase the rent.
-Also, the landlord may want the "security" of a fixed income/same tenant for a longer period than month-to-month, thus the incentive to create a new fixed term tenancy, instead of perodic?

Just trying to put all the puzzle pieces together!

Comms69

InterestedParty2018 wrote: »

Sorry to hijack this post somewhat, but I have a question for G_M. I have read the guides you have previously produced/linked.

May I ask if I understand something correctly:

- Prior to the "natural" end a fixed term AST (eg for a year, rent paid monthly), the landlord must issue a specific notice (at a specific time) if s/he wants the actual tenancy to terminate and the tenants to vacate.
- If the landlord fails to issue the notice, and does not formally agree a new fixed term, the automatic default is that the tenants continue occupying the property on a periodic tenancy.
- The alternative being that at the time of expiry, that both landlord and tenant negotiate a further fixed term and rent, and this can then start after expiry of the original tenancy. (and this exercise to continue each time the fixed term expires.)
- unless the tenancy agreement stated otherwise, after the fixed term the tenancy becomes a STATUTORY periodic tenancy. If the agreement says something different it becomes a CONTRACTUAL periodic tenancy.
To further seek confirmation:
A periodic tenancy is simply an extension of the existing tenancy, and tenancy terms. The landlord can not vary any terms (ie cannot increase the rent) and if the either party wishes to terminate they need to serve the appropriate notice. (eg one month) - sort of. A tenant would typically give a months notice, inline with tenancy period. a landlord can not end a tenancy unilaterally; they require a court order.

The pro's & cons' are then surely:

- With a periodic tenancy, the tenants have "security" of the fixed rent until the landlords notice (if they serve it) expires. However, the tenants do not have "security" of a longer term occupancy. ie if they renewed a new fixed term tenancy for a further year, they will have comfort of the landlord not being able to force them out until at least the end. (subject to no other breaches of course.) - No. The rent can still be increased, either by mutual agreement or via a s.13 notice.

- A landlord who is a "short term landlord for a fixed period" (ie someone who has temporarily let out their property whilst abroad for example) - is an idiot for letting out their property... , would have to be very careful about serving the correct notices at the correct time to ensure vacant possession when needed. - this is impossible. There is no such thing as a notice to vacate (legally speaking), there is only notice of intention to go to court. Average s.21 eviction times vary, but are typically 6-9 months! An investment landlord however may be a little more lax, in so far as if they are happy for the tenant to stay on (with no hike in the rent), then they can simply continue until eventually one party wants to end it with the appropriate notice?
- Of course the downside for the landlord is that until a new tenancy agreement is agreed, they cant increase the rent. - No that is not true.
-Also, the landlord may want the "security" of a fixed income/same tenant for a longer period than month-to-month, thus the incentive to create a new fixed term tenancy, instead of perodic?

Just trying to put all the puzzle pieces together!

Im confused what it is you want to know.

InterestedParty2018

Thank you Comms69, that is really helpful.
I'm am not seeking any advice/information on a particular situation, just intrigued by the tenancy/lettings processes and having read so many posts on the subject wanted to understand it better.

saajan_12

InterestedParty2018 wrote: »

Sorry to hijack this post somewhat, but I have a question for G_M. I have read the guides you have previously produced/linked.

May I ask if I understand something correctly:

- Prior to the "natural" end a fixed term AST (eg for a year, rent paid monthly), the landlord must issue a specific notice (at a specific time) if s/he wants the actual tenancy to terminate and the tenants to vacate. - the LL can serve notice earlier to expire at / after the end of the fixed term but that isn't sufficient to end the tenancy - the LL must then obtain a possession order from a court, possibly call bailiffs..
- If the landlord fails to issue the notice, and does not formally agree a new fixed term, the automatic default is that the tenants continue occupying the property on a periodic tenancy. - yes, on
a CPT if the latest tenancy agreement specifies what happens after the fixed term, or SPT if it doesn't.
- The alternative being that at the time of expiry, that both landlord and tenant negotiate a further fixed term and rent, and this can then start after expiry of the original tenancy. (and this exercise to continue each time the fixed term expires.) - yes

To further seek confirmation:
A periodic tenancy is simply an extension of the existing tenancy, and tenancy terms. The landlord can not vary any terms (ie cannot increase the rent) - no, they can vary terms by mutual agreement or increase rent by serving a Section 13 notice and if the either party wishes to terminate they need to serve the appropriate notice. (eg one month) - Notice may not be one month. If on a CPT, the notice is as specified in the latest agreement. IF on a SPT, the LL must serve Section 21 notice giving 2 months plus get a court possession order, bailiffs etc. The tenant must serve 1 tenancy period notice (ie if periods start on 1st, serving notice on 10th Sept would expire 31st Oct, ie 6 weeks later to be in line with periods)

The pro's & cons' are then surely:

- With a periodic tenancy, the tenants have "security" of the fixed rent - No, the LL can serve Section 13 and give 1 tenancy periods notice and then increase the rent. until the landlords notice (if they serve it) expires. However, the tenants do not have "security" of a longer term occupancy. - Yes, though if they don't breach the tenancy agreement then the can only be evicted by Section 21 notice + court possession order + bailiffs so can stay for 4-8 months. ie if they renewed a new fixed term tenancy for a further year, they will have comfort of the landlord not being able to force them out until at least the end. (subject to no other breaches of course.) - correct

- A landlord who is a "short term landlord for a fixed period" (ie someone who has temporarily let out their property whilst abroad for example), would have to be very careful about serving the correct notices at the correct time to ensure vacant possession when needed. - yes, or make other arrangements to live themselves. The LL would have to leave ~6 -12 months buffer between serving notice and the date they want the property back. An investment landlord however may be a little more lax, in so far as if they are happy for the tenant to stay on (with no hike in the rent), then they can simply continue until eventually one party wants to end it with the appropriate notice? - Yes, most LL's don't want a massive void in rent so won't evict a good tenant paying market rent.
- Of course the downside for the landlord is that until a new tenancy agreement is agreed, they cant increase the rent. INCORRECT They can serve a Section 13 notice and increase rent with 1 tenancy period notice.
-Also, the landlord may want the "security" of a fixed income/same tenant for a longer period than month-to-month, thus the incentive to create a new fixed term tenancy, instead of perodic? - Yes, they might.

Just trying to put all the puzzle pieces together!

If you have specific questions, start your own thread. Everything you've asked so far has been answered if you read ALL of G_M's guides plus searched the forum. Note the key mistake in your assumptions is on a periodic tenancy, the rent can be increased by
a) mutual agreement
b) in accordance with any rent increase clauses in the last fixed term agreement
c) Section 13 notice giving 1 tenancy period notice. The tenant can challenge this and ask a rent assessment committee to decide - if they agree with the increase then the tenant must pay that.

InterestedParty2018

Thank you Saajan,
I didnt start with intention of my own questions, just wanted to try get process straight in my head following the OP's questions - then got carried away.
Im going to go try find all the G_M guides, as I obviously haven't seen them all.

One question in your answer which does intrigue me. Above, you mention that the rent can be increased by (b) in accordance with any rent increase clause in the last fixed term agreement.

Is it the case that the original/last fixed term agreement can include a clause about varying the rent, should the tenancy become a periodic tenancy? Maybe in line with RPI?

Comms69

InterestedParty2018 wrote: »

Thank you Saajan,
I didnt start with intention of my own questions, just wanted to try get process straight in my head following the OP's questions - then got carried away.
Im going to go try find all the G_M guides, as I obviously haven't seen them all.

One question in your answer which does intrigue me. Above, you mention that the rent can be increased by (b) in accordance with any rent increase clause in the last fixed term agreement.

Is it the case that the original/last fixed term agreement can include a clause about varying the rent, should the tenancy become a periodic tenancy? Maybe in line with RPI?

Or any other measurement.


Rent goes up £1 every time it rains. Or 10% every Christmas. Or whatever.

saajan_12

InterestedParty2018 wrote: »

Is it the case that the original/last fixed term agreement can include a clause about varying the rent, should the tenancy become a periodic tenancy? Maybe in line with RPI?

Yes. Such clauses can help either or both sides e.g.
* max 1 increase every x months;
* rent increase no more than y %
* rent increase by a fixed z% every x months
* rent increase by the change in RPI every x months
* rent increase by the change in the price of fish