APCOA parking ticket - at a station

Bramshaw

Hello, I'm looking for a little advice. I originally had a thread on PePiPoo, but can't remember my password and the reset function isn't working for me.


A brief summary:
26/04/18 - Parked at my local rural train station (do this very infrequently), usual parking areas were full, so parked somewhere out of the way that didn't have any no parking signs or markings. On return, had a ticket for not parking in a marked bay!
29/04/18 - Submitted an appeal via APCOA's on line tool (painful), it refused to accept my photos. Appeal was logic based as there was no obstruction and I'd correctly paid for and displayed my ticket.

Circa start of July - Heard nothing, so contacted APCOA to be told my appeal details were totally blank.

03/07/18 - Resubmitted the appeal via email direct to APCOA with photos
23/07/18 - APCOA wrote to confirm the appeal was rejected, stating I'd not parked in a marked bay.

August - I've been taken out by illness for most of this month, and still off work. Hence, this has matter has slipped my mind and now I've missed the 28 days notice to appeal to POPLA.


What are my options? Can I still appeal and how?



I'm damned if I'm going to freely give the company £100 more if I've paid to park and not caused an obstruction or impeeded anyone or anything.



As a sub note, where I parked, several other cars were also left near by, but the bay markings have long since vanished, but they were not ticketed.


Thoughts on the best way to proceed?
TIA.

waamo

Are those dates correct? You may have a day or two yet. POPLA codes are normally valid for about 33 days.

Stations are not usually relevant land for the purposes of POFA so there may be no keeper liability.

As time is short (if there still is any) copy the appeal in this thread that won on no keeper liability.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5875025/popla-golden-ticket

Submit it today.

Redx

or adapt this uncontested APCOA station one quickly, save as a pdf and choose OTHER on the popla website and upload it

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5803128/parking-charge-notice-apoca

popla codes usually last for about 33 days

Bramshaw

Ah ha, thank you. The code is still valid. I've started the process.



Do I need to get everything down in the appeal, is it a one shot chance?


I don't know if the land is railway owned or not. None of the information confirms one way or another.



I've seen from elsewhere on the web that having planning for car park signage is also another consideration, as in it should be in place. Our LA is all on line, there is no planning for the boards that I can see.


Any other points to appeal on?


APCOA have my address, supplied to them by the garage who supplied our car (it's a lease). Is any of this relevant?

Umkomaas

I've seen from elsewhere on the web that having planning for car park signage is also another consideration, as in it should be in place. Our LA is all on line, there is no planning for the boards that I can see.

Waste of time. POPLA will not adjudicate on it.

APCOA have my address, supplied to them by the garage who supplied our car (it's a lease). Is any of this relevant?

If the driver has been specifically identified by the keeper, (not the garage, they won't know for certain), then it blows PoFA protection on 2 fronts - general PoFA requirement failure and the 'not relevant land' element. That becomes an issue.

But I think you're not at a stage to try to gild any lillies here - it's getting critically late. APCOA won't contest a long, detailed POPLA appeal - they have almost always withdrawn. So just use one or other of the two previously advised by waamo and Redx. Just make sure there are no 'gaffes' in them that are not relevant to your case.

waamo

You get one go at POPLA and that's it. The operator presents their evidence and you get to comment on it. You cannot introduce new arguments in the comments.

If you don't know something then assert it's true. Make the ppc prove their case. If it isn't railway land make them show it.

Don't worry too much about how they got your details I don't think you have time for that. Go with not POFA compliant. That cover a multitude of sins.

Bramshaw

[QUOTE=Umkomaas;74689953

If the driver has been specifically identified by the keeper, (not the garage, they won't know for certain), then it blows PoFA protection on 2 fronts - general PoFA requirement failure and the 'not relevant land' element. That becomes an issue.

[/QUOTE]


Thanks.



Should be ok here, I've not identified the driver and the leasing company has only identifed the keeper, me (car is leased in my name).

Redx

in which case the arguments about hirer/lessee liability come into play if they have failed to follow POFA2012 and get the docs from the hire/lease company and if they also failed any pofa2012 wording and timescales

plus if its railway land then POFA2012 does not apply anyway

so as I said earlier, adapt an existing long winded popla appeal, altering it as necessary so it is about your case and not where it came from

then save as a pdf and choose OTHER on the popla website and upload the finished PDF

chances are that APCOA will throw in the towel when they see a long appeal by a keeper with POFA2012 arguments in it

Bramshaw

Ok, I'll draft up the appeal text from Redx's link. That seems to be a close tally to my situation.


Last question I think, assuming I can show no obstruction was caused (photo's), which did not affect APCOA's earnings or affect any other users and they had the required fee is this worth adding to the appeal? I have many images that show the car park is poorly marked and it is not a simple case of saying a bay is definitely there or not.

Redx

if bays are inadequately marked then add these aspects into the INADEQUATE SIGNAGE section

if its railway land then only bylaws apply and only the TOC can issue a penalty if a bylaw was broken

this railway land sc@m is a complicated issue , so if you wish to get to grips with it , read other APCOA and INDIGO railway station threads until it all becomes clear

ie:- if they failed the basics, then any bay or payment issues are a moot point


in effect , the KEEPER is saying FRO, nowt to do with me , and I will not tell you who to send any paperwork to because I do not have to

Bramshaw

Sorry, another quick one.



The NTK is actually titled "Notice to hirer", does this have any relevance?


Really appreciate the help and advice.