The Great Speed Awareness Course Scam

Car_54

Cornucopia wrote: »

Except that isn't working. The enforcement is not there, and speeding is endemic.

The only consolation is that even with such endemic speeding, the historic trend in casualties is downwards.

No enforcement? 2 million fixed penalties a year in England and Wales alone, plus courses and court convictions., would suggest the opposite.



As for endemic speeding, the trend in speeding itself (not enforcement measures )is actually downward, see https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/623261/vehicle-speed-compliance-statistics-2016.pdf

Richard53

Mercdriver wrote: »

In deregulated sections on German Autobahn do you think it is only the person that pull out in front of a car legally doing 170kph in an Audi A6 that is killed on impact? Less of the German Autobahn (no 's' in plural n German) is deregulated than you might think - majority of it is regulated to 120/130kph, and there is strict camera enforcement of distance between vehicles.

When I was crossing Germany a few years ago (and taking full advantage of the unrestricted sections) I came across some roadworks with an 80 kph limit. The speed limits started perhaps a mile away from the roadworks, and were staged with a limit of 130 kph, then 110, then 90, and so on. What amazed me was that *everyone* obeyed the limits strictly. It was like formation flying. Everyone kept to 80 kph through the obstruction, and as soon as it was cleared, there were derestriction signs and everyone continued as before.


My conclusion: if a speed limit is clearly required, is sensibly imposed, and removed as soon as reasonable, people are generally happy to comply.

Cornucopia

Car_54 wrote: »

No enforcement? 2 million fixed penalties a year in England and Wales alone, plus courses and court convictions., would suggest the opposite.

Not where I live. The A2-M2 Motorway has no speed cameras (nor even any mobile locations) for its entire length in the county of Kent. You rarely see Police on the road unless there is an incident.

As for endemic speeding, the trend in speeding itself (not enforcement measures )is actually downward, see https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/623261/vehicle-speed-compliance-statistics-2016.pdf

It actually says this: "The average speed of vehicles on the road in free flowing conditions has remained stable and broadly unchanged since 2011." and this "On motorways, 46% of cars exceeded the speed limit in 2016... On 30mph roads, 53% of cars exceeded the speed limit... On 20mph roads with free-flow conditions ... 81% of cars exceeded the speed limit".

On which basis, I'm not sure we can really say that it isn't endemic. Maybe it is endemic, but stably so?

In the weird way in which internet discussions sometimes "flip", are you saying that there isn't a problem with speeding?

Mercdriver

Robisere wrote: »

Not true. I speak fluent deutsche and the plural of autobahn, is autobahnen.

I'm not fluent in German, but speak reasonable German. Where is the 's' in Autobahnen? I can't see one.

Car_54

Cornucopia wrote: »

It actually says this: "The average speed of vehicles on the road in free flowing conditions has remained stable and broadly unchanged since 2011." and this "On motorways, 46% of cars exceeded the speed limit in 2016... On 30mph roads, 53% of cars exceeded the speed limit... On 20mph roads with free-flow conditions ... 81% of cars exceeded the speed limit".

On which basis, I'm not sure we can really say that it isn't endemic. Maybe it is endemic, but stably so?

In the weird way in which internet discussions sometimes "flip", are you saying that there isn't a problem with speeding?

[FONT=&quot]On Page 1, it says "Since 2011, the percentages of vehicles exceeding the speed limit in free flow conditions have declined slightly for most vehicle and road types." So it seems to be in two minds?

It later reports "In 2015, for all accidents, 2.7% (5,350) of vehicles had an exceeding the speed limit contributory factor allocated to them. This has remained stable over the past four years, with the value being 2.6% (5,645)
in 2011."

Yes, there is a problem with speeding, but it seems it is a long way from being the scourge that people like BRAKE claim. To that extent but no further), the OP is right.

However, just because there are bigger contributory factors (to accidents) than speeding doesn't mean we should ignore it. Detecting and punishing (or educating?) speeders is easy and cheap. Combating some of the other factors is more difficult and expensive, but we can do both in parallel. It's not an either/or choice[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

Mercdriver

Cornucopia wrote: »

Not where I live. The A2-M2 Motorway has no speed cameras (nor even any mobile locations) for its entire length in the county of Kent. You rarely see Police on the road unless there is an incident.

I'm sure the section of the A2 after the M25 is in Kent, and there used to be a Gatso. That has now gone to be replaced by Average speed cameras.

Cornucopia

Mercdriver wrote: »

I'm sure the section of the A2 after the M25 is in Kent, and there used to be a Gatso. That has now gone to be replaced by Average speed cameras.

Yes - all of that is inside London. The Kent stretch (some 40 miles from Dartford Heath to Faversham) has no cameras. The boundary is marked by signs on the A2 that are about half way between the railway bridge and the Dartford Heath junction.

robatwork

Richard53 wrote: »

When I was crossing Germany a few years ago (and taking full advantage of the unrestricted sections) I came across some roadworks with an 80 kph limit. The speed limits started perhaps a mile away from the roadworks, and were staged with a limit of 130 kph, then 110, then 90, and so on. What amazed me was that *everyone* obeyed the limits strictly. It was like formation flying. Everyone kept to 80 kph through the obstruction, and as soon as it was cleared, there were derestriction signs and everyone continued as before..

Still the same (was there yesterday) and even down to 60 in some roadworks. Strictly observed although it does feel like you're driving backwards after cruising at 170(ish).

Their contraflows are pretty ropy at best. Yellow lines marked alongside the white ones, and occasionally tiny "cones" separating oncoming traffic. The outside lane is sometimes so narrow that nobody uses it - to overtake anything wide you would need to drive within a few cm of the cones and the lorry/bus. Anyway that's OT but it's jaw dropping to be driving around 110mph and be overtaken by a sports car like you're stationary.

Herzlos

Jackmydad wrote: »

So slowing them down is the only way of keeping other people safe.

Pretty much. There are some improvements to road layout and street furniture, and cars that can act on their own, but it's mostly about getting drivers to slow down to the conditions.
It's kind of worrying how many drivers view themselves as above average. North of 75% IIRC.

Herzlos

Richard53 wrote: »

When I was crossing Germany a few years ago (and taking full advantage of the unrestricted sections) I came across some roadworks with an 80 kph limit. The speed limits started perhaps a mile away from the roadworks, and were staged with a limit of 130 kph, then 110, then 90, and so on. What amazed me was that *everyone* obeyed the limits strictly. It was like formation flying. Everyone kept to 80 kph through the obstruction, and as soon as it was cleared, there were derestriction signs and everyone continued as before.


My conclusion: if a speed limit is clearly required, is sensibly imposed, and removed as soon as reasonable, people are generally happy to comply.

I think it's more cultural. The Germans are better drivers than Brits and thus get the freedom to go faster. That same set of roadworks and signs in the UK would be entirely ignored.