Not so 'Good Energy' (long post sorry)

Ninky

In March 2017 I decided to look around to change my gas and electric provider. I wanted value for money but more importantly I wanted good customer service as this is important to me. I saw an advert for Good Energy company and decided I would see what they were quoting. An online estimate came up at around £75 which was considerably less than my payments at that time. I called them and they said based on my consumption the quote would actually be £65 for dual utilities. I agreed to go over on the condition that the direct debit be set up for £75 and if need be, reduced at a later date to err on the side of caution.

My direct debits have been taken from my account regularly, as far as I am aware, none have been stopped by the bank and I have supplied all meter readings requested.

On the 11th July 2018 someone called me from Good Energy to see if I would like to go onto their fixed tariff. I asked them to email me details and I would consider it.

On the 23rd OF July 2018 I again received a phone call from Good Energy (+44 1249 761100) at 2.03pm from a lady who had noticed a problem on my billing this month as the meter reading had gone in with 2 numbers the wrong way around and generated a bill in the region of £15,000. She was letting me know that she had corrected the error and to ignore the bill I had been sent. I thanked her but told her I hadn!!!8217;t received the bill yet. I then went on to discuss the fixed tariff. She quoted approx. £104 per month direct debit to go onto fixed tariff and as I was about to ask her why it was so much higher than my current direct debit she said that the figure she just quoted was based on my consumption history. She then went on to say !!!8216;oh hold on, it will be more than that as you have arrears!!!8217;.

I asked her what arrears as this was the first time anyone had mentioned arrears to me since I had moved supplier to them in March last year (16 months ago). I asked her how much arrears and how come. She told me that there were arrears on my account of £839.45. This came as a HUGE shock to me. I asked her how on earth could there be arrears on my account as all readings had been provided and my direct debits had been paid. She looked through my account and noted that instead of taking £75pm they were taking £65pm which would have been a small contributing factor (£160.00), but in no way would have caused a debt of such proportion in such a short time. She then noticed that my direct debits had been reduced to £18pm from the 13.06.17 for 3 or 4 months (I cannot be certain which) again a further contributing factor leading to the debt on the account but would only account for approx. £141.00 !!!8211; £188.00. The reason I was given for the direct debit reduction was that Good Energy had implemented a new system at that time and it had !!!8216;teething issues!!!8217;. Even allowing for these two errors, both of which lie solely with Good Energy, the !!!8216;arrears!!!8217; would amount to a maximum £348.00, barely half of the current arrears on the account. This means that Good Energy, intentionally underquoted to get my business. Further to this I have at no time until the conversation on 23rd July with Good Energy, had anyone tried to contact me from there to inform me there were arrears building up, or that my repayments had been set too low. Unless it had come to light that day, I am not sure how long they would have waited before letting me know. It concerns me that this is an underhanded strategy by Good Energy, as a relatively small supplier in a very competitive market to draw in custom, allow debt to accrue, knowing that once a customer has debt they are unable to change suppliers until the debt has cleared.


The lady I was speaking with put me through to customer service to discuss the debt, and then I was put through to the debt collection department. Throughout, the operatives tried to make this somehow my fault. From suggesting I was neglectful in not noticing the direct debit had been reduced to £18, to not signing in to my Good Energy account. Unless I know there to be an issue, or for example a direct debit has bounced and the bank notified me, there is no reason for me to assume there is a problem or to log on to my account other than to supply my meter readings, which I did regularly. If my bank goes overdrawn the bank text me to let me know immediately so I can act. If a direct debit bounces, I am notified and am able to sort it out. All other companies I have contracts or dealings with notify me of changes or anomalies almost immediately.


Good Energy have on four counts failed me as a customer.
1, Originally under quoting.
2, Not setting original direct debit at £75 as I requested (even though it appears even this sum would have been to low).
3, Reducing the direct debit to £18pm because of a technical glitch.
4, At no time informing me that a debt was building on my account.


I am not contesting my consumption of gas and electricity. It has been used. I am complaining about the neglectful practices that have led to me being in debt for the first time in my life for utilities. I am also complaining about the way this has thus far been handled by Good Energy in them not accepting responsibility for this mess. I am concerned that this will affect my credit rating, I am also resentful that until this is resolved I have no option but to stay with Good Energy. I do not feel I should be made responsible for this debt in light of how it was allowed to build up.


If anyone has any suggestions, ideas or similar difficulties with the same company (or any other), how was it resolved? can they please advise.

I guess getting people into debt is one way of keeping customers preventing them going bust like Iresa.

Carrot007

Ninky wrote: »

1, Originally under quoting.

Far too long and lacking paragraphs so apologies if you have covered this.


1. How did you get this quote. Put in real kwh figures or something else. If something else then much your own fault. If kwh then certainly theirs.


2. How often did you provide reads? Unless you have s smart meter you should be doing it monthly to have the DD adjusted. Don;t know how their online one does it though. With my supplier I just click enter reads and they are already there as I have a msart meter. Though I do need to do this inputing them to generate a bill and adjust DD (actually my gas was completely wrong on smart one time, but I found a second place to enter reads and it let me do it manually, hope they do not remove it!)

Ninky

Hi there.
I was asked for my meter readings which I gave. I was also at that time in credit by a small amount with my then provider.


My meter readings are quarterly prior to a bill due date. I have supplied all of them

Carrot007

Ninky wrote: »

Hi there.
I was asked for my meter readings which I gave. I was also at that time in credit by a small amount with my then provider.


My meter readings are quarterly prior to a bill due date. I have supplied all of them

Then they are certainly at issue with DD leveling.


Were these actual reads you took yourself (if so why not monthly). Or Estimates off your bill (I never trust anything but my own reads unless I have verified it, doing otherwise may lead to troubles).


You also seem to have provided no monthly reads for them. I always did this before I have a smart meter. Nowadays just when I want an updated bill since they should have them anyway.


You can "Why should I", "It's their responsibility", all you like but especially with a little provider it makes sense to do this to avoid the situation you are in (I would not touch these smaller suppliers with someone else's bargepole personally. For £100 a year it is not worth it). Or just get a smart meter, you sound like the sort of person who would benefit from one (as in doing the job you don't, not saving money which is uop to you and a smart meter aint' gonna' help with!)

Ninky

I took the readings. They were correct. And also someone came and read them when the supplier was switched.

They email me to request meter readings when required and I duly oblige.

I shall see what happens as a result of my complaint.

Thanks

Carrot007

Good stuff. Sounds like you ticked all the boxes and they just let the imcomepant computer deal with it becasue they dont have enough staff beign a small co.


Hopefully you will get a decent result.

bri160356

Carrot007 wrote: »

Then they are certainly at issue with DD leveling.


Were these actual reads you took yourself (if so why not monthly). Or Estimates off your bill (I never trust anything but my own reads unless I have verified it, doing otherwise may lead to troubles).


You also seem to have provided no monthly reads for them. I always did this before I have a smart meter. Nowadays just when I want an updated bill since they should have them anyway.


You can "Why should I", "It's their responsibility", all you like but especially with a little provider it makes sense to do this to avoid the situation you are in (I would not touch these smaller suppliers with someone else's bargepole personally. For £100 a year it is not worth it). Or just get a smart meter, you sound like the sort of person who would benefit from one (as in doing the job you don't, not saving money which is uop to you and a smart meter aint' gonna' help with!)

Billing foul-ups and issues aren’t confined solely to the ‘minnow’ energy suppliers though;…some of the big ’uns are more than capable of financial shenanigans.

I had no end of major problems with Scottish Power,…ludicrous monthly D/D’s even though I regularly supplied accurate readings.

I was always in ‘credit’ the whole time I was with them yet one month they took a D/D of almost £1200!....the accurate D/D should have been about £115.

The over-charge was always refunded but only after I’d phoned to complain and even then it took several weeks to get the refund;…and the very next month they’d do it all over again,…another massive D/D of several hundred pounds.

ScottishPower were completely incapable of sorting it out and the farcical situation went on for about 12 months until I moved to Br.Gas and had smart-meters installed.

I was really pleased with Br.Gas as my D/D’s never fluctuated;…the monthly payment stayed exactly the same for 18 months;...steady as a rock, hooray!,..after my ScottishPower experience I was in a state of euphoria. :j

It was only when I left Br.Gas in Oct’17 and moved to AVRO Energy that I discovered Br.Gas had been consistently over charging me and they’d allowed me to run up almost £800 worth of credit.

Although I did look at my Br.Gas D/D’s I very foolishly didn’t cross-check them against actual bills;…I naively believed that Br.Gas would take care of that for me. They didn’t;...and just to reiterate I had active Smart-Meters that were set-up to send readings to Br.Gas every 24hrs.

I got the entire ‘credit’ refunded about 6 weeks after leaving Br.Gas.

Since I’ve been with the ‘minnow’ AVRO Energy I’ve had no problems whatsoever with my bills or D/D’s;… however, I do monitor my bills/payments a little more carefully these days, and my bills are considerably less than they would have been if I’d stayed with Br.Gas or any of the Big-6 energy suppliers.

I’ve only had three energy suppliers since the market was deregulated.

Big6 - ScottishPower: absolutely abysmal in the final 12 months. Incapable of sorting out basic issues,…they really were driving me batty.

Big6 - Br.Gas: their wonderful automated/accurate Smart-meter billing system failed them (and me!) miserably.

Minnow - AVRO Energy: so far so good tbh, although my ex Br.Gas Smart meters are now dumb meters. No billing issues whatsoever and let’s hope it stays that way. However, the energy market is fast moving and things can go downhill rapidly,… so fingers crossed for the future. :money:

ValiantSon

Ninky wrote: »

Good Energy have on four counts failed me as a customer.
1, Originally under quoting.

From what you have written, it seems that the quote was based on the annual consumption figures that you provided. They haven't under-quoted if this were the case, but you may well have used more. It is also possible that you gave them inaccurate figures. There is evidence in your post that you are liable to do this.

Ninky wrote: »

2, Not setting original direct debit at £75 as I requested (even though it appears even this sum would have been to low).

That isn't how it works, I'm afraid. They set the direct debit to cover the costs based on the expected annual consumption. You are entitled to be a little irritated on this account, but they have not actually done anything wrong. Furthermore, you should have received a contract from them, with a declaration about the direct debit amount. Did you check this?

Ninky wrote: »

3, Reducing the direct debit to £18pm because of a technical glitch.

You have some grounds for complaint, and may reasonably expect a small goodwill gesture to be credited to the account for their error. However, you are responsible for the payments coming out of your bank account. You should be checking your statements every month (if not checking your account more regularly than that). This would have alerted you to the problem quickly and reduced the impact on your utility account. It would also have alerted you very quickly to the fact that they were initially taking £65, rather than the £75 you had expected.

Ninky wrote: »

4, At no time informing me that a debt was building on my account.

Have you been receiving account staments on a monthly basis? If so, then these would have shown that your account was in debit and the debt was growing. Assuming they have issued statements, then they had informed you about the debt.

Ninky wrote: »

I am not contesting my consumption of gas and electricity. It has been used. I am complaining about the neglectful practices that have led to me being in debt for the first time in my life for utilities. I am also complaining about the way this has thus far been handled by Good Energy in them not accepting responsibility for this mess. I am concerned that this will affect my credit rating, I am also resentful that until this is resolved I have no option but to stay with Good Energy. I do not feel I should be made responsible for this debt in light of how it was allowed to build up.

I'm sorry, but from what you have told us, you are responsible for the debt, and Good Energy are not. There is a small error where for a short period of time they took £18 direct debit, and they do have responsibility for this. For everything else (based on what you have told us) you are responsible. You are responsible for checking your bank account; you are responsible for checking your statements. You have also used the energy, which you do not dispute, and are therefore liable for the debt. You stand no chance of getting this overturned. At best you may get a small gesture of goodwill for the £18 direct debit error.

Ninky wrote: »

I guess getting people into debt is one way of keeping customers preventing them going bust like Iresa.

That is a libellous allegation. You would be well-advised not to make such comments, as you could end up in court.

bri160356

ValiantSon wrote: »

From what you have written, it seems that the quote was based on the annual consumption figures that you provided. They haven't under-quoted if this were the case, but you may well have used more. It is also possible that you gave them inaccurate figures. There is evidence in your post that you are liable to do this.



That isn't how it works, I'm afraid. They set the direct debit to cover the costs based on the expected annual consumption. You are entitled to be a little irritated on this account, but they have not actually done anything wrong. Furthermore, you should have received a contract from them, with a declaration about the direct debit amount. Did you check this?



You have some grounds for complaint, and may reasonably expect a small goodwill gesture to be credited to the account for their error. However, you are responsible for the payments coming out of your bank account. You should be checking your statements every month (if not checking your account more regularly than that). This would have alerted you to the problem quickly and reduced the impact on your utility account. It would also have alerted you very quickly to the fact that they were initially taking £65, rather than the £75 you had expected.



Have you been receiving account staments on a monthly basis? If so, then these would have shown that your account was in debit and the debt was growing. Assuming they have issued statements, then they had informed you about the debt.



I'm sorry, but from what you have told us, you are responsible for the debt, and Good Energy are not. There is a small error where for a short period of time they took £18 direct debit, and they do have responsibility for this. For everything else (based on what you have told us) you are responsible. You are responsible for checking your bank account; you are responsible for checking your statements. You have also used the energy, which you do not dispute, and are therefore liable for the debt. You stand no chance of getting this overturned. At best you may get a small gesture of goodwill for the £18 direct debit error.



That is a libellous allegation. You would be well-advised not to make such comments, as you could end up in court.

Apologies if I’ve misunderstood your post, but you appear to be exonerating ‘Good Energy’ for what is obviously a very badly managed account.

Your statement “Assuming they have issued statements, then they had informed you about the debt” raises a question;…i.e. what action did ‘Good Energy’ take to address this debt?

Answer: (apparently) they did nothing,…in fact, by their own continuing shoddy management of the OP’s account, they actually compounded matters by allowing the debt to accrue. The OP simply paid the monthly D/D’s as requested by Good Energy.

I assume (though I may be wrong,...I’ve been wrong before!:D ) that energy companies have a ‘duty of care’ to ensure that customers are billed as accurately as possible;… Good Energy have demonstrably failed to do this,…and failed miserably, regardless of what action the OP could or should have taken.


Laying 100% of the blame at the feet of customer is a little harsh, IMHO;…customers have a duty to pay the bill that’s requested, in full and on time,…which is what the OP did apparently.

The energy supplier has a duty to ensure that their bills reflect the customers energy consumption as accurately as possible. ‘Good Energy’ failed to do that.

It really should not be the customers responsibility to micro-manage an Energy suppliers accounting systems;

…however, given the litany of such billing foul-ups it is certainly wise to scrutinize your own account on a regular basis because many energy companies are quite capable of digging a hole for their own customers and then taking a back-step when their own short-comings are revealed;…the OP ‘s situation being a case in point.

Carrot007

bri160356 wrote: »

Billing foul-ups and issues aren’t confined solely to the ‘minnow’ energy suppliers though;…some of the big ’uns are more than capable of financial shenanigans.

No, my point is exclusivly about the ability to sort it out if you go high enough to the right people. The small companies would probably rather you leave than sort it out at times! They just do not have the staff or expertise.


Yeah SP can be bad. I know people have had issues. I have been with them since moving here as I knew there were issues for people leaving (and yes the price was fine also!).


However beyond them failing to set up the account at first (I tried registering online, they had the reads from previous owner already), though 1 call and a call back fixed that. And one issue where I reversed two digits in a read I submitted and it took two calls to fix (and I can hardly blame them for causing it, maybe for not fixing first time (I had photos), but sometimes you get thought to a lemon on the phone!).



Though looking at the likely cost increase when my tarrif end (Dec I think), I shall be leaving. If my employer offers a reasonable price (I do not work in domestic, nor do we get a discount) then I will probably go there as it is easier to sort out problems when I can just call whichever idiot is failing to understand the problem's manager and get it sorted out (I have before at the old property). Though obviously not many people get that option.


You want the inside truth (well my optinion of it). The domestuic market, however much we moan how much it costs, does not generate enough profit for suppliers to be able to do a competant job of it. If supermarkets made so littelthey would be out of business. I'd say there is no point in the domestic market and it should be un-privatased, but again that would cost to much so it is not going to happen.

bri160356

Carrot007 wrote: »

No, my point is exclusivly about the ability to sort it out if you go high enough to the right people. The small companies would probably rather you leave than sort it out at times! They just do not have the staff or expertise.


Yeah SP can be bad. I know people have had issues. I have been with them since moving here as I knew there were issues for people leaving (and yes the price was fine also!).


However beyond them failing to set up the account at first (I tried registering online, they had the reads from previous owner already), though 1 call and a call back fixed that. And one issue where I reversed two digits in a read I submitted and it took two calls to fix (and I can hardly blame them for causing it, maybe for not fixing first time (I had photos), but sometimes you get thought to a lemon on the phone!).



Though looking at the likely cost increase when my tarrif end (Dec I think), I shall be leaving. If my employer offers a reasonable price (I do not work in domestic, nor do we get a discount) then I will probably go there as it is easier to sort out problems when I can just call whichever idiot is failing to understand the problem's manager and get it sorted out (I have before at the old property). Though obviously not many people get that option.


You want the inside truth (well my optinion of it). The domestuic market, however much we moan how much it costs, does not generate enough profit for suppliers to be able to do a competant job of it. If supermarkets made so littelthey would be out of business. I'd say there is no point in the domestic market and it should be un-privatased, but again that would cost to much so it is not going to happen.

Good points ;…I’d imagine that most of the minnows run on a shoe-string budget and they probably see customer service (when it comes to sorting out issues like the OP’s) as particularly burdensome.

IMHO, a ‘good’ company (in any sphere) is one which has the capacity to deal with problems/complaints in a timely and professional manner.

It’s quite clear than many of the ‘minnows’ are unable or unwilling to do this,.. and yet it is a requirement of their licence that they treat customers issues in a professional, fair and timely manner with particular emphasis on their treatment of ‘vulnerable’ customers;…in other words they must provide demonstrably ‘good’ customer support/service.

By your comments it would appear that Scottish Power have now got their act together,…which is good to know;…however, they were appalling bad when I was with them.

It was during that period a few years ago that led to Scottish Power being fined £18Million by the regulators for various failings;

…billing problems and inadequate customer care being just two of the issues.

I had the same recurring issue that just kept happening month after month for a full year,...trying to get it sorted was like banging my head against a brick wall. :wall:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2016/06/scottishpower_final_penalty_notice_8_june_2016.pdf