Waiting PCN private area help needed on popla appeal

JeffBezos

Hi all,

Are there any cases with PCN issued by Park Watch for waiting in a 'loading yard space/road' for less than 5 mins that have won - at POPLA?

If anyone has advice about WAITING on private land - NOT a car park, that has 'forbidding signage'

PLEASE HELP - (previous replies left below - but specific help would be really useful)

Thanks all.

(and yes, I am the worlds richest man - Jeff Bezos)

waamo

Use all appeal points except disproportionate charge. That's dead in the water.

If you were only 3mins why not throw in grace periods? The code of practice state 10mins grace period should be given.

Redx

any and all BPA CoP failures should be in there, including grace period clause #13


also


NO LANDOWNER AUTHORITY
POOR AND INADEQUATE SIGNAGE
NOT THE SAME AS BEAVIS
ANPR COMPLIANCE


etc


but not the disprportionate charge as that died with the BEAVIS case 2 years ago

Redx

check the clause about the period where reading the signs and then deciding to leave and not choosing to "park"

13 Grace periods
13.1 If a driver is parking without your permission, or at locations where parking is not normally permitted they must have the chance to read the terms and conditions before they enter into the "parking contract" with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract.

in your case its not about a "waiting time" , its about a grace period of say up to 10 minutes to read the signs each and every time and choose to park or to leave , in your case to leave because it says "no waiting"


3 minutes doesnt even come close

Redx

yes, but edit out personal details , VRM number plate and the popla code , just post the proposed draft , assume that the time to read the signs and depart from the "forbidden area" is up to 10 minutes (ie:- everybody would take 3 or more minutes)

also note that they cannot offer a parking contract where parking is forbidden (forbidding signage), so at worst its trespass and only the landowner can issue a court case for trespass

KeithP

Does the PPC already know the identity of the driver?

If not, why are you not exploiting that?

And forget this one:
The charge is disproportionate and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
Hasn't worked for nearly three years.

KeithP

JeffBezos wrote: »

ParkWatch know who I am - I admitted being there in my original appeal...

Admitted being there or admitted being the driver?
How many seats in your vehicle?
Could you have been a passenger?

Careful how you answer that on a public forum.

Fruitcake

The signage point is far too short. Use the very long one from port 3 of the NEWBIES, but embed photos when you submit it instead of using links.
Get your own photos of the signs to emphasise your points.

You need to number your headings and the corresponding appeal sections.

KeithP

JeffBezos wrote: »

I need real help here.

When writing a PoPLA appeal a good place to start is post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

In there you will see several already written, near template appeals.

For signage, look in that post for the line:

Signage (I deliberately go to town in this section, don't cut it down!):

Immediately following that is a link - click on it to find a comprehensive already written PoPLA appeal point.

Any answers to my earlier questions?

Umkomaas

(I supply a brief account of what happened and why I was waiting in the area for background)
Is that wise?

Unwise - only state that your vehicle entered the area, stopped to read signs, saw prohibition, drove off - all within 3 minutes.

Then you go into detailed argument about the 3 minutes being well within the BPA Code of Practice guidelines on Grace Periods. Then go to town on the amount of detail contained in the signs, that even 3 minutes were insufficient to take in all the minutiae, but having spotted the main thrust of the signage, the vehicle was removed immediately - exactly the purpose for which the BPA Grace Period was introduced. State that 10 minutes is the statutory Grace Period for council parking tickets.

You need to make Grace Period you principal argument and should be your first appeal point.

Then follow with signage being prohibitive in nature, no parking contract offered, therefore Park Watch are seeking to penalise you, something no private company in law can impose. At worst you were a trespasser, and only the landowner can pursue you for trespass - as was confirmed by the Judges at the Supreme Court case of ParkingEye v Beavis.

Follow on then with No Landowner Authority, ANPR deficiencies and any other appeal points from the sticky. Load them up, make it a mountain for PW to climb, because the more you put in there, the more work they have to do in contesting your inputs. They may decide you're too slippery for them and give up.

I've admitted to being the driver in my first stage appeal.

should i NOT admit to being the driver in my popla appeal?

I'd like to read exactly what you said before making any comment.

Also might be important is that my car is leased they sent original ticket to the registered keeper (the company we lease it from) who then charged us £12 admin charge to inform PW of my details. Is this useful and how?

Could have been vitally important, but depends what's been said to PW (above). A real get-out-of-jail opportunity possibly chucked away.

I'll have another look at those appeals, but I don't think I can just copy all of that as it's not relevant to my case is it?

Relevant or not, PW have to respond to it. At POPLA you only need to win on one single appeal point to get this cancelled. PW on the other hand have to win against every single appeal point for POPLA to side with them.

Umkomaas

is there a way where i can send you what i wrote to PW in my first appeal without it being posted here. It will be obvious if any nefarious visitors are monitoring this forum?

Sorry, I only work on-forum.

Post it up here as it gives other regulars the opportunity to comment or add advice.

I wouldn't worry that [STRIKE]MI5[/STRIKE] PW are looking in - they will already have seen your initial appeal and will get your POPLA appeal soon enough.