Definition of HMO

Nick_C

joshuajac wrote: »

Oh contrare!

Huh?

If you are going to use foreign expressions, you should at least spell them correctly.

I think you may mean au contraire

G_M

joshuajac wrote: »

That would still be an HMO I "believe" because the definition is 3 or more unrelated persons sharing a house. Couples are treated as individuals for this definition I think.

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Wise of you to say you 'believe', and 'I think'.

for the purposes of HMO's and in the context of this thread a couple are treated as individuals. If you see this definition and....

If you wish to correct others by referring to a definition, why not then quote that reference and provide a link to it?


Have you actually seen the relevant definition of 'household'?

red40

joshuajac wrote: »

Do you know anything about the new rules that are coming effect GM by any chance?

Although I'm not GM, what do you want to know about the changes, come 1st October 2018?

red40

joshuajac wrote: »

I really would like to know what's going to change exactly. Does it mean that anybody who has five persons sharing a house definitely going to need a license even if previously they didn't need one?

Yes Josh, that is correct. The previous statutory requirement was 5 or more persons, in 2 or more households and 3 or more storeys in height. From the 1st October 2018 the 3 storey requirement has been removed so every property that is occupied by 5 or more persons in 2 or more households and at least one of the basic amenities is shared it will require a mandatory HMO licence.


So a property such as large house, terraced, semi, bungalow, back to back house, converted self contained flat can all be subject to a mandatory licence if it is occupied by 5 persons, in 2 households.


Whats more a purpose built self contained flat was exempt from mandatory licensing, unfortunately that exemption has in part been removed, i.e a purpose built self contained flat above a shop is now subject to licensing if it meets the criteria above.

joshuajac wrote: »

Do you happen to know what they're doing about the amenity standard rules such as is it every room has to be 6.52m2?

Any room used as sleeping accommodation which is less than 6.51sqm can only be occupied by a child under 10.


Any room used as sleeping accommodation which is over 6.51sqm can be used by one person over 10 years of age.


For couples ( 2 person rooms) used as sleeping accommodation has to be a minimum of 10.22sqm


Any room less than 4.64sqm cant be used as sleeping accommodation, plus the council must be notified of any rooms less than this.



The statute is very specific that these sizes are for sleeping accommodation, unfortunately many people will now take this as the minimum requirement and try to do away with any communal living areas, I am already seeing this. Landlords splitting rooms up to the bare minimum, a small kitchen / diner, with no communal lounge.


The sleeping accommodation room sizes surprisingly, or possibly not, only apply to licensable HMO's.

joshuajac wrote: »

Are there national rules about communal amenity space as previous to this it was all a bit dependent upon the council you had and the relationship with that council. If they knew you were a good landlord they would give you the benefit of the doubt when things were borderline and they had flexibility. Most often if you were a decent landlord not trying to cut corners and kept the fundamentals solid and sound you'd not have much of a problem but I've heard that even if it's one centimeter too small then it means you can't rent out a room and to be frank loosing a room in an HMO now along with all the other things you have to worry about it could be the difference between keeping and selling a house.

The amenity space I assume you mean kitchen, dining, lounge areas, sadly there isn't any minimum prescriptive standard on this. What I do see a lot of is landlords/agents trying to use the CIEH shared house guidance and implement this to bedsit guidance.


In response to your question if you mean sleeping accommodation size for a licensed HMO, there wont be any leeway on this as it will be a legal requirement. Will any council inspection turn a blind eye to a few cm's, who knows.



As above if it isn't a licensable HMO the room sizes will not apply, although I suspect many councils will use them as a baseline requirement, but this is subject to an appeal to the First-tier Tribunal and they will look at the entire property, not just a small bedroom.

00ec25

the info is there if you just google it...eg: changes to HMO law

Statement by the Minister of State (Housing, Communities and Local Government) 18 January 2018: The Government proposes to extend the scope of mandatory houses in multiple occupation (HMO) licensing, so that a licence is required for HMOs with five or more occupiers. We published our response to our HMO reforms consultation in December 2017, and we plan to lay the necessary regulations before Parliament shortly with a view to bringing them into force (subject to approval) in October 2018.

The consultation responses mentioned above are in this document:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/670536/HMO_licensing_reforms_response.pdf

Many websites already discuss the issues raised, eg:

https://news.rla.org.uk/extension-of-mandatory-hmo-licensing-set-for-october-2018/

and it is already before Parliament
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/221/made

jonnygee2

and to be frank loosing a room in an HMO now along with all the other things you have to worry about it could be the difference between keeping and selling a house.

I think you'll find that's part of the point. The government is putting pressure on landlords with the intention of moving the market away from the huge buy-to-let focus. They want at least landlords to sell up, allowing owner-occupiers in.

I've got six bedrooms that I'm legally allowed to rent out, they meet all the sizes. I've also got a nice new big kitchen and more than adequate washing facilities but I have a feeling that my local council will not think I've got enough amenity space because I don't have a common room

What can I do if the council think I've not got enough room and is this under the environmental rules or are they under national rules?

Not sure if this is just theoretical or your actual situation. If your actual situation, then I'd think that if you do own a six bedroom home and rent all of them out, you're probably in a position to hire that £250 an hour solicitor you just mentioned to chase the council off for you.

00ec25

yes but the point is these are minimum standards. Councils will still have the discretion to set higher standards. I appreciate your comment about article 4, but the fact remains unless you want to be a test case in court, the rules are whatever the specific council decides they are in their area, subject to the national minimums.