UK Parking Limited - LBCC

picklerick

Hi guys - I am a new user on the forum, although I have been reading the threads and have found it most useful, so thanks to all the contributors.
Before starting a thread, I read all the **NEWBIES** posts and others, but I would like some advice with a LBCC I have received and whether the recent GDPR legislation can be used.

Unfortunately, when the driver received this PCN, I wasn't up to date on the advice to appeal before NTK, so it was ignored. The PCN was originally from Castle Car Park, Windsor in February 2018 (UK Parking Limited). The driver had paid for a ticket (over £8 in total) but overstayed by an hour due to a family emergency. I am the keeper, and after I received the NTK I just kept ignoring the debt collection attempts.

• Keeper (myself) over 18
• Living in UK
• Vehicle not a lease car

Now I have received the LBCC from CSB Solicitors Limited on behalf of UK Parking Limited.

I have read all the posts advising on how to respond. Firstly, following a link from the *NEWBIES* thread, I read this thread detailing how to reply according to the Practice Direction:

h t t p s://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4754020

It's really helpful, but I realised it was from 2013 and most likely out of date by now. I found this more recent thread:

h t t p s://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72358831#post72358831

Following the template from Loadsofchildren123, I came up with this reply:

---

************ SOLICITORS LIMITED
*****************
**************
****************

xx July 2018

Your Ref: xxxxxxxxxx

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 19th July 2018.
Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1;establishing yourself as the creditor
8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form


If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20), Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.


Yours faithfully

---

I would really appreciate some advice:

1. On whether this acknowledgement letter looks OK
2. Whether there are any breaches of my rights under the GDPR that I can claim as Keeper, since I haven't given anyone explicit permission to use my data, and the signs in the car park most certainly didn't outline a clear Privacy Policy.

Quentin

You look to be wanting to use POFA


Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was drivig


You need to edit your post to remove details of who was driving


The ppcs monitor here and can use posts in your thread against you

Redx

as above, its the DRIVER and the KEEPER, NO "my , me , myself & i"

I do not believe you have a case under the GDPR as the PPC obtained keeper details using "reasonable cause" , read the DVLA document about it

in the future, if you can prove the details were accessed unlawfully, as a breach, then you could report it to the ICO and maybe then obtain compensation, but nothing I have seen so far indicates that anyone has breached the DPA or GDPR - this wont help you in the short term anyway

in your post , 2 sets of initial are mentioned for the solicitors, so one must be a typo , please correct it

the LOC123 rebuttal was posted last year and may well need amending and bringing up to date, so fiund recent posted LBC rebuttals on here and check for any 2018 adaptations

but you are on the right lines as a rebuttal needs to be made

also consider the SAR bomb under the new GDPR to get all evidence , docs and photos etc from the solicitors and their client

Coupon-mad

LBCC from CSB Solicitors Limited

But you've addressed your reply to:

BSP Solicitors Limited

Did their letter give you 30 days and include the reply forms required?

picklerick

Thanks @Quentin, I have updated the wording.

@Coupon-mad, thanks, silly typo. Focusing on all the confusing stuff and forgetting the basics! They gave me 14 days from the date of the service of LBCC to reply. Should I point this out at this stage, or keep it as ammo for later?

@Redx thanks for clarifying the position RE. GDPR. I haven't found any more recent rebuttals on this board yet, although I have decided to use my right to a SAR.

The updated letter, silly typos fixed and with a SAR is below. What do you guys think?

---

*** SOLICITORS LIMITED
**********
****************
**********

xx July 2018

Your Ref: xxxxxxxxxx

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 19th July 2018.
Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client bases their claim upon.

Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide.

Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1;establishing yourself as the creditor
8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form


If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20), Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Furthermore, I exercise my right under Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulation to be granted access to all personal data of mine that your client holds as a data controller. I expect this to include:

- The categories of personal data concerned
- The recipients or categories of recipient your client discloses my personal data to
- The necessary processing agreement between UK Parking Limited CSB solicitors, to ensure you are handling my data in a legally compliant manner
- Your client!!!8217;s retention period for storing my personal data
- The existence of my right to request rectification, erasure or restriction or to object to such processing
- My rights to lodge a complaint with the ICO;
- Information about the source of the data your client holds on me
- Information about the existence of automated decision-making (including profiling)
- The safeguards your client provides if they transfer personal data to a third country or international organisation.


Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.


Yours faithfully

picklerick

Hi guys

An update after I sent the letter above.

About 5 days after I sent the letter above, I received a template reply, this time from 'UCS - Ultimate Customer Solutions' just saying that they had been instructed to respond to my communication with CSB solicitors.

They only said that their client (UK Parking Limited) had instructed CSB to issue proceedings in the Small Claims Court, and attached another 'How to Pay' page.

I have heard nothing regarding the documents I requested regarding Practice Direction or the Subject Access Request I made and it has now been 50 days since they would have received the letter I sent.

I have now received a CCJ (Judgement for Claimant) demanding I pay over £250 in full.

What should I do next? How do I respond to this?

unholyangel

picklerick wrote: »

Hi guys

An update after I sent the letter above.

About 5 days after I sent the letter above, I received a template reply, this time from 'UCS - Ultimate Customer Solutions' just saying that they had been instructed to respond to my communication with CSB solicitors.

They only said that their client (UK Parking Limited) had instructed CSB to issue proceedings in the Small Claims Court, and attached another 'How to Pay' page.

I have heard nothing regarding the documents I requested regarding Practice Direction or the Subject Access Request I made and it has now been 50 days since they would have received the letter I sent.

I have now received a CCJ (Judgement for Claimant) demanding I pay over £250 in full.

What should I do next? How do I respond to this?

Theres a step missing here. You should have received summons telling you that you were being taken to court and giving you the option to contest the claim.

Did you receive anything that fits that description? Is it definitely a CCJ you have received from the courts stating a default judgement for the claimant?

waamo

Does it say "in default" after the Judgment for claimant bit?

Could post have gone astray for any reason? Or you missed some post?

Coupon-mad

Could the scammers have sent a claim form to an old address, even though they had had a letter from you at a new address? Is there an old address in play?

Did they originally have a previous address when the PCN was first issued, e.g. due to the car being registered at an old address?

If they've used an old address when they know it is wrong, then CSB solicitors will be in big trouble and you can report them to the ICO and to the SRA.

Tell us what's happened to that claim form? If you don't know, ring the CCBC and ask them to email you a copy of the claim form as you need to know where it was sent.

You will have to do a set aside application (see NEWBIES thread second post) to turn this around but if CSB are at fault, I suggest the ICO will take an interest in this data misuse.

picklerick

Could the scammers have sent a claim form to an old address, even though they had had a letter from you at a new address? Is there an old address in play?

Did they originally have a previous address when the PCN was first issued, e.g. due to the car being registered at an old address?

@Coupon-mad - I haven't moved in over 10 years longer than I've been the keeper of the car, so I would be very surprised if they have sent it to the previous address, and I don't really have any way to find out.

Thanks very much everyone - I have searched everywhere and I can't find the Claim form, I am very organised with post so it must have never arrived :mad:

I will call the CCBC first thing Monday and get it sent to me to find out what happened.

I will also separately file a complaint with the ICO for their failure to provide me the requested subject access request.

Coupon-mad

I will also separately file a complaint with the ICO for their failure to provide me the requested subject access request.

And for sending a claim to the wrong address, if that's what you discover.

Then read the NEWBIES thread post #2 about set asides. Can be done!