Do I have a golden ticket?

chrisw

Hi,

I have an ANPR PCN from CEL incident date 5.7.18, PCN Issue date 18.7.18, received through letterbox saturday 21.7.18.

I can't prove 21.7, however POFA seems to allow 2 days for receipt from the issue date so that would be 20.7.18.

That to me would still be outside 14 days, however, looking at a refused appeal on here, POPLA has said:-

From the evidence provided by the appellant, I can see that the date of the contravention was 6 December 2017, as such, the relevant period starts on 7 December, and it must be received by 21 December. The appellant himself has confirmed that he received the document on 21 December. Therefore, I am satisfied that the notice was received within the given timescale.

Ie 6th to 21st December would be the same as 5th to 20th July.

Any clarification would be welcome.
Thanks.

KeithP

Your PCN was delivered in time to be able to hold the keeper liable.

That in itself is not enough to transfer liability to the keeper.
Have you checked all the other possibilities? E.g. wording?

There is a link to Schedule 4 of POFA in post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread which may help you.

nigelbb

It's not the issue date but the posting date that is crucial. If it were posted on 18/7/2018 then it is deemed delivered on 20/7/2018 unless the contrary can be proved & that is within the POFA timescales for the delivery of a valid Notice To Keeper.

The day of the parking "crime" is Day 0 & it must be delivered by Day 14. In your case this is 20/7/2018.

Umkomaas

You start your count from the day following the incident date - 06/07/18. So should have been received by 19/07/18. Sending it out on 18/07/18 plus 2 working days for delivery would make the earliest receipt date 20/07/18.

You do indeed seem to have a golden ticket. But you've got a few things to do to ensure it keeps its shine:

1. Under no circumstances imply who the driver was - including here on the forum.

2. Appeal to CEL using the standard forum template from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1. You could add a final sentence about them missing the dates to hold the keeper liable - but you may want us to look over what you put before sending.

3. If CEL don't cancel at this stage, draft your POPLA appeal, with your prime point being 'No Keeper Liability' - but you may need to spell out the reasons to POPLA in case you have a rookie assessor dealing with your appeal.

Guys_Dad

Read the wording in the act and be sure to quote it in the appeal spelling out why they fail .

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended. That would be the 6th
(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so given for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose ;working day; means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

So
1 6th
2 7th
3 8th
4 9th
5 10th
6 11th
7 12th
8 13th
9 14th
10 15th
11 16th
12 17th
13 18th
14 19th

So, 14 days after the 6th is the 19th. POFA says allow 2 days for delivery, so they would need to have posted it on the 17th. They missed it by 1 day.

Be sure to spell it out as I have done as some assessors can't count!

I hate Chrome for inserting stupid characters and numbers that I have had to delete!!

Umkomaas

My calculations seem to be at odds with Keith and Nigel. But I've counted this using top technology (fingers of both hands!) and I still think day 14 is 19/07.

Happy to accept being proved wrong - don't want it to be wrong for you OP.

EDIT TO ADD

Guy's Dad agrees with me :T

Guys_Dad

KeithP wrote: »

Your PCN was delivered in time to be able to hold the keeper liable.

That in itself is not enough to transfer liability to the keeper.
Have you checked all the other possibilities? E.g. wording?

There is a link to Schedule 4 of POFA in post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread which may help you.

I think you are wrong. See post #5

Guys_Dad

nigelbb wrote: »

It's not the issue date but the posting date that is crucial. If it were posted on 18/7/2018 then it is deemed delivered on 20/7/2018 unless the contrary can be proved & that is within the POFA timescales for the delivery of a valid Notice To Keeper.

The day of the parking "crime" is Day 0 & it must be delivered by Day 14. In your case this is 20/7/2018.

I think you are incorrect. But please advise where I have gone wrong in my table.

nosferatu1001

I agree with Guys Dad.

timpster

For what it is worth I agree with Guys Dad and have sent an appeal with that very point and exact time frame of one day out in.

My reasoning is the act states 'so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period' and '14 days beginning with the day after'

Therefore the 6th has to be 1 full day not zero.

chrisw

Thanks all.

Having used fingers, thumbs, toes and several calendars, I also agree with Guys Dad. It was the (obviously incorrect) decision in the POPLA decisions thread which threw me.

There is no mention of POFA anywhere on the PCN so I'll bang the first template appeal in and see what happens.
Cheers.