Is there a process to challenge value on car after accident?

Sausage11

Thanks dacouch - this is all fantastically helpful.

Update.

After telling them they were valuing the car in the wrong way and telling them the correct way they asked me to hold.

The valuation pre accident is now 11,992 according to Glass guide after a 20% deduction.

I asked for the price from the other industry guide. They don't use Cap's Market Value Manager. When I said you have to the lady replied 'we don't have access to this, and I've already increased the value significantly at your request'. (After insisting across numerous calls that this was the correct valuation and the only valuation I would receive). I said you are obliged to take an average of the 3. She said 'Only a manager can do this but this could delay the claim quite considerably.' I said that's okay. She then said she would respond within 3-5 working days.

This is appalling. How can they not know how to value a car? Is this just a process that they go through with each claimant in order to screw them?

I've been told there is no way to increase the quote from the original figure. There is no way to appeal the valuation nor industry ombudsman to which I can apply. That the correct way to use the valuation is to use the bottom book figure. Is this mendacity or incompetence?

Do you think I should appeal the 20% deduction? The FOS says "not more then 20%.". Given MB approved repairs?

Finally, if I complain, am I just expecting the averaged valuation? Or can I request some modest form of compensation for the appalling service I've received?

dacouch. As a result of your advice it looks like I will be up around 2,000. Is there a favoured charity you have to which I can make a donation?

dacouch

Did they really tell you there is no Ombudsman you can complain to?

They can get in serious trouble if they did this, the industry is very highly regulated and they are obliged to explain to you how to make a complaint and if needed use the Ombudsman.

I would suggest at this stage that you try calling the Ombudsman, they will often intervene informally and call the Insurer to remind them how to value the car correctly.

If that does not come up trumps I would try contacting Admiral via social media eg Facebook or Twitter. They have staff who have a lot more authority on there and companies tend to bend over backwards to sort problems out.

What amount do you think is fair for the car based on your research?

If you go down the official complaint route they have upto eight weeks to respond but are likely to respond much quicker.

Section 15 of my previous link has a link on the FOS's views on compensation should an Insurer wrongfully delay a claim. In my mind if they are not using the way the Ombudsman requires them to value a car then they are intentionally delaying the claim as you have now pointed out to them they are incorrect.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150320073453/http://financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/loss-of-use-mv.html

If you went the fill Ombudsman route, then if they rule in your favour Ombudsman would require Admiral to put you in the same financial position you would have been if they had not made the mistake

dacouch

My favoured charity is Breakfast in a bag.

http://www.breakfastinabag.co.uk/

Sausage11

They really did tell me that there was no ombudsman. I asked the question 3 times but each time I felt the lady avoided answering. I then said "I've asked the question 3 times but I'm still not sure that I understand what you're saying. Is there a way to challenge the valuation or is there an industry arbiter or ombudsman that I can appeal to?". Her answer was no.

Do you think that I can challenge the 20% deduction? Is it reasonable to expect a lesser deduction - e.g. 15%? The Ombudsman says "not more than 20%", implying that it can be lower. Given that I did everything possible to ensure that they repairs were done as well as possible, what would you suggest?

The ombudsman says the price should be that from "a reputable dealer". Do you think the price should be somewhere between the figure for a Franchised Dealer and an Independent Dealer?

If the price is for the Independent Dealer and a 20% deduction is what I should expect, their new offer is reasonable. But if the price was nearer or at the Franchised Dealer level, and a 15% discount was reasonable, it is worth me appealing as I should be due quite a lot more.

In any case, I want to complain (to Admiral at this stage rather than the Ombudsman) to highlight the service that I've received and to try and ensure it does not happen to others in my situation.

dacouch

Give the Ombudsman a call and ask their advice about the valuation, they can advise you without you putting a complaint it, they will often ring the Insurers which can prompt them into action.

Mention to the FOS that they specifically said there was no Ombudsman, they are obliged to point out to you the complaint process and the Ombudsman if you express you are not happy

Sausage11

Dear dacouch / All,

I thought it would be useful to others to update this thread.

As per dacouch's advice I spoke to the FOS. They suggested I put in a formal complaint to Admiral and then come back to them if I was not satisfied with their handling of the issue.

Admiral have now come back and conceded all points. They have increased the offer and provided an amount for interest and distress.

I think they are incorrect in saying that the 20% was not factored in. According to my calculations it was. I also have a slight issue with the fact that they did not consider that the deduction should be 'at most 20%' as per the FOS website - I explained that the repairs were carried out at a MB approved workshop and that therefore the car was in superb condition after the original accident that rendered it a Cat D.

But having said this, overall I'm happy with the situation. And I would like to again thank dacouch for the detailed advice. This has enabled me to achieve a final payment of more than 2,000 above what Admiral was originally prepared to offer.

I think it's shocking that I had to go through this process to have my claim treated in accordance with the industry rules. Hopefully, anyone else in this situation will be able to reference the links provided by dacouch to ensure they are treated fairly.

I will make a 50 pound donation to Breakfast in a Bag.

For completeness, Admiral's (redacted!) reply is set out below.

Thank you.

---

Thank you for getting in touch to let us know you are unhappy with the service we have provided.

We take all complaints seriously and would like to thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have completed my investigations into the matter for you and I am now in a position to formally respond.

Your Complaint

I understand you are dissatisfied because of the following reasons:

1. You are dissatisfied with the valuation that has been provided for the vehicle.

2. You are not happy with the information that was given by handler XXXXX advising that there was no way to appeal the valuation.

3. You feel we have not correctly followed the valuation process for the vehicle as outlined by the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

4. You are not happy with the attitude and manner of handler XXXXX when the valuation was challenged.

5. You feel you have been incorrectly advised by handler XXXXX that there was no way to increase the value and that we do not have access to other guides.

If my understanding of your complaint is incorrect, please let me know.

Summary – Upheld

Based on my investigation, I agree with your concerns in relation to all the above points. I would like to take the time to apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Please refer to my investigation where this will be explained in further detail.

To correct matters I have arranged to uphold the valuation figure to the highest that you were offered which is £12,650. With an additional £130.31 for any possible interest lost in the claim process.

In recognition of our error, I am awarding the following compensation
* £150 for any distress and inconvenience caused.

The payment of £12,930.31 will be sent to you via cheque within the next 7-10 days.

Investigation

I have investigated each point as follows

1. You are dissatisfied with the valuation that has been provided for the vehicle.

I have listened to the calls between XXXXX and yourself and I agree that XXXXX incorrectly valued the vehicle. You were right when you stated that we are expected to use Glasses, Parkers and CAPS and to average the three figures and to deduct this figure by 20% due to the vehicle being a total loss. XXXXX did not do this when offering you a valuation. If she had done this then you would have correctly been offered £10,198.66. XXXXX then later offered you top book minus your excess which is £12,650. XXXXX should have deducted 20% here but hasn’t done this. Due to the errors already made on our part and the fact that XXXXX has already offered you this amount I am happy to stand by the higher amount of £12,650 and not deduct the 20% as we usually would. We will also take into consideration the interest you will have lost on this figure had you had the payment at the first offer.

2. You are not happy with the information that was given by handler XXXXX advising that there was no way to appeal the valuation.

If a customer is unhappy with the valuation we provide then they are entitled to raise a complaint to be investigated through the company. If they remain unhappy they are able to appeal the decision through the Financial Ombudsman Service. XXXXX has incorrectly advised you that this is not an option.

3. You feel we have not correctly followed the valuation process for the vehicle as outlined by the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

Following the information, I have given in point one, I can confirm that XXXXX did in fact, incorrectly value the vehicle by not using all of the guides and not averaging or deducting where necessary.

4. You are not happy with the attitude and manner of handler XXXXX when the valuation was challenged.

I have listened to the call between XXXXX and yourself and I do feel that XXXXX could have handled the call better and feedback has been provided.

5. You feel that you have been incorrectly advised by handler XXXXX that there was no way to increase the value and that we do not have access to other guides.

I have listened to each call between yourself and XXXXX and I can confirm that XXXXX states that you cannot do anything about the figure and that it is the highest that we can offer when the figure she was offering was incorrect. Also, XXXXX does state that we don’t have access to CAPS or Parkers after later stating that she did through a manager, even if it is through a manager this is still access.

Conclusion

This letter represents our final response to your complaint. We would like to thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and for giving us an opportunity to put things right

I am sorry you have found it necessary to complain, at Admiral we take customer satisfaction seriously and aim to resolve all complaints fairly. While I hope my response answers your concerns, if you have any further queries or information which you may believe is relevant to this complaint, please contact me on the details at the bottom of this letter.

You have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge – but you must do so within six months of this letter.
If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. For example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances.

You can find out more information about the Financial Ombudsman at – https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk.

I have also provided a link to the leaflet ‘Your Complaint and the Ombudsman’ – http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/consumer-leaflet.htm.