VCS "This is not a parking charge notice" - guidance please

Wildsound

Update 28.07.19 - I successfully defended my cases in court (under one hearing) and the judge dismissed the case. (see post #74 for details)

Long story short - the judge honed in on my Assured Shorthold Tenancy and said that by law, VCS had no legal right to alter my agreement after the fact without my direct consent, which was never given.

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Long story short, I arrived back home to my flat (with a designated parking spot) after a walk to find two notices attached to my windscreen:

https://imgur.com/a/dPgSSgN

https://imgur.com/a/WIUZX61

I realised what I had done. The "parking permit" which I normally display on my dashboard had fallen off after returning from the shops 2 days ago, now I'm here with this situation(s) on my hand.

I have read through the newbies thread looking for the bits which are relevant to me, as well as other threads with similar tickets/same company and websites, but each case seems to be different. Normally, my time isn't worth £60 (x2 in this case i presume), however I know that this is not the right approach and that only feeds the beast by me doing this.

For info, below is the sign which is up in the grounds of the flats:

https://imgur.com/dVjml9L

According to the below website, they are NOT in the registered list of BPA Approved Operators:
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/BPA-Approved-Operators

However, they show up on the IPC website as approved:
https://theipc.info/aos-members/?page=7

Please can anyone lend me their time in helping me? From my understanding I should do the following:

1) Ignore the card and wait for a NTK to come in the post. If this never comes, I assume I don't need to do anything?
2) When the NTK comes through, I need to appeal or do I do nothing until another letter comes through?

Any help would be great. For now I will sit still and await responses here.

Many thanks

Redx

1) correct, wait for an official NTK and check the postmark on the envelope etc, keep all paperwork, including envelopes, as proof

2) appeal using the single use template from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread

bear in mind the initial appeal is a paper exercise only, do not expect a cancellation, their aim is to entrap victims, and tenants and leaseholders are captive victims, which is why the bill by Sir Greg Knight is going through parliament as was seen last thursday , weblink to this bill below

https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html


check your lease to see what it says about parking (or fails to say)

Wildsound

Redx wrote: »

check your lease to see what it says about parking (or fails to say)

I am a private tenant and not the owner of the flat. Should I be going to my letting agency (who manage the property) to get a copy of the lease asap? Are they allowed/obliged to do this? Is the lease obtainable from anywhere else?

Redx

as you are a tenant then you should check your contract and see what it states about parking (if anything at all)- you must have some idea what rights you have for parking and the permit etc, detailed in your AST

if in doubt , check with your letting agency , or landlord , or M.A.

we cannot tell you what rights you have for parking , or what your contract states, which is why I told you to check it , because you are displaying that permit for some reason known to you and the people you dealt with


the PPC is employed to deter those without permission from parking there, clearly you have a permit so have permission in which case your M.A. or whoever manages the contract should have a get out of jail free card in their armoury, allowing them to tell a PPC to cancel incorrectly issued tickets where its a resident

RobinofLoxley

As Redx says above wait for the NTK letter(s) to come in the post.
Don't contact myparkingcharge.co.uk, or offer them any information.


In the meantime research all the VCS permit holders threads of which there are loads to get your head around the situation you are now in. As Redx says what your lease says re parking is important.

Only the other day VCS lost in court tying to claim for several PCN's given to a resident of some apartments for not displaying a permit.

The judge concluded that displaying a permit was just a matter of convenience for VCS and there wasn't a legal obligation for authorised users to diplay one, promptly dismissing VCS's claim.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5869887/simon-renshaw-smith-hit-by-double-whammy

Coupon-mad

Wildsound wrote: »

I am a private tenant and not the owner of the flat. Should I be going to my letting agency (who manage the property) to get a copy of the lease asap? Are they allowed/obliged to do this? Is the lease obtainable from anywhere else?

Not only to get a copy of the lease...but to put pressure on the Managing Agents to CANCEL THE FAKE PCN on the spot.

NeilCr

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Not only to get a copy of the lease...but to put pressure on the Managing Agents to CANCEL THE FAKE PCN on the spot.

It could well be that the MA cannot cancel the PCN. They may not be party to the contract

There have been a few cases like this, recently, and, as Redx has advised, it's best for everyone to actually understand who has a contract with whom and what authority has been used to introduce the PPC before saying who should do what.

Wildsound

Redx wrote: »

as you are a tenant then you should check your contract and see what it states about parking (if anything at all)- you must have some idea what rights you have for parking and the permit etc, detailed in your AST

if in doubt , check with your letting agency , or landlord , or M.A.

we cannot tell you what rights you have for parking , or what your contract states, which is why I told you to check it , because you are displaying that permit for some reason known to you and the people you dealt with


the PPC is employed to deter those without permission from parking there, clearly you have a permit so have permission in which case your M.A. or whoever manages the contract should have a get out of jail free card in their armoury, allowing them to tell a PPC to cancel incorrectly issued tickets where its a resident

From my AST and the only thing it mentions regarding it:

15. Cars and Parking
15.1. To park a private vehicle only at the Premises.
15.2. To park in the car parking space, garage or driveway allocated to the Premises, if applicable.
15.3. To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning
of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.
15.4. To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy.
15.5. Not to park any vehicle at the Premises that is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.

So I am not in breach of contract with my letting agents at least.

Coupon-mad

NeilCr wrote: »

It could well be that the MA cannot cancel the PCN. They may not be party to the contract

There have been a few cases like this, recently, and, as Redx has advised, it's best for everyone to actually understand who has a contract with whom and what authority has been used to introduce the PPC before saying who should do what.

Agreed.

But if he's going to ask the MA to show him the head lease, it would be daft not to also demand to know who the heck allowed this scammer to infest the site and who can cancel the scam...

Maybe in your politer style than my 'woman scorned, how dare you' mode!

Wildsound

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Agreed.

But if he's going to ask the MA to show him the head lease, it would be daft not to also demand to know who the heck allowed this scammer to infest the site and who can cancel the scam...

Maybe in your politer style than my 'woman scorned, how dare you' mode!

I have an email chain with the property management company a few months ago when they issued new parking permits. They requested my license plate number in order for them to issue me with a visitors permit (which they did). Perhaps this was foolish of me originally, however that has happened now. Is it worth me contacting this person by email to see if they are in a position to cancel the "not a parking charge notice"s or would I be digging my hole further?

Redx

without revealing who was driving , I would put my AST/LEASEHOLDER/TENANT hat on and require the information from all and sundry plus who has the authority to cancel these tickets for residents, and insist these are cancelled

also, it appears that your agreement that was signed by all parties mentions nothing about displaying permits and that contract cannot be varied , a new contract would have to be agreed and signed AFAIK

therefore, as the judge said in that other case , its for their convenience and not a legal requirement

any judge dealing with your case would look at contract laws etc, which are complicated, but its what those agreements you have signed say that is paramount here

I would also suggest you watch those MP,s debating it last thursday and also the 02 feb 2018 debate on it in the house of commons

MP,s get caught out by these issues, so you are not alone