Adding remains to grave without permission

dori2o

Is it possible to find out when a grave was last accessed.

We have reason to believe that ashes have been interned in a family grave without permission of the grave owner.

Clearly the only way to find out for sure is to ask the council to dig the grave and check, but before going that far we wish to find out what the last recorded grave opening was to see if it matches the records on the grave papers.

Does anyone know what the penalty would be if someo e has accessed the grave without permission and without informing the council?

There is also the issue of whether they have damaged the crypt.

Flugelhorn

Are you thinking that someone has interred ashes on the quiet (ie without permission / council / churchwardens knowing) ? Does happen from time to time and won't be recorded anywhere.

if you think it was a recorded event then you need to see the burial register of the place in question

dori2o

That is what we believe may have happened.

I assume then the first point of call would be the local council who control all burrials for that particular graveyard to see when the grave was last accessed to tbeir knowledge.

Flugelhorn

They are unlikely to have a record of an unofficial burial - you can ask re the burial register of the plot and see what it says.

You may not get any further with finding out if there has been a burial of ashes - some people scatter them on a grave (which I think you can do just about anywhere) or they lift grass and scatter them underneath then replace the turf. Either of those won't be detectable after a while

Marcon

dori2o wrote: »

We have reason to believe that ashes have been interned in a family grave without permission of the grave owner.

I can understand you may find the thought objectionable (I think I would, too), but if that has happened, is it really worth making a huge fuss about and asking to have the grave opened? The chances are you will create more distress for yourself and others - and if the ashes have been scattered you can hardly extract them, so what exactly do you hope to achieve?

Margot123

dori2o wrote: »

..........
Does anyone know what the penalty would be if someone has accessed the grave without permission and without informing the council?

There is also the issue of whether they have damaged the crypt.

This implies you are looking for a legal remedy.

What evidence do you have the grave has been disturbed and/or the crypt damaged? When and by whom? What witnesses do you have?

Can you see this is not going to be easy?

While objectionable, it isn't the end of the world but could cause great distress for the nearest and dearest if you pursue the matter.
Personally, I would let the deceased rest in peace, and the bereaved mourn.

Robin9

I'm sure that mistakes can and do happen but you seem to be inferring that a deliberate act has taken place. I can see that this can be upsetting.

Unless the ashes (I assume not a coffin) are in an urn then it is difficult to see how the deed can be undone.

Dox

You can't offend or hurt the dead; your proposed action could do both to the living.

pogofish

I have this vague memory that the law on grave damage/desecration in England and Wales has pretty much fallen out of use/to pieces and the current legal position is effectively - "do what you want!"

I think there are proposals for new legislation but their progress is very very slow FTM.

Dox

dori2o wrote: »

There is also the issue of whether they have damaged the crypt.

Surely that can be checked by just looking at the crypt to see if it has any damage?

Ms_Chocaholic

dori2o wrote: »

Is it possible to find out when a grave was last accessed.

We have reason to believe that ashes have been interned in a family grave without permission of the grave owner.

Clearly the only way to find out for sure is to ask the council to dig the grave and check, but before going that far we wish to find out what the last recorded grave opening was to see if it matches the records on the grave papers.

Does anyone know what the penalty would be if someo e has accessed the grave without permission and without informing the council?

There is also the issue of whether they have damaged the crypt.

But surely if it was done on the quiet then there will be no record of the grave opening. I'm not sure you will be able to find out, why do you think that the crypt may have been damaged, can you see any damage? If there is damage could this be due to the earth settling.