Company won't change TAX code dispite HMRC emailing them twice.

Samiihsmi

Hello,
I've been having a bit of a problem with the company who recently brought the shop I work for.
I noticed that they had been taxing me far to much for how little I am earning there by comparing it to my first job that taxes me next to nothing.
I have been in touch with HMRC, they told me the tax code was indeed wrong and sent the company an email containing my new tax code and me a letter also containing the new tax code so I had a copy.
When I got paid, they had failed to change the tax code so I again rang HMRC who sent the company another email and said that I need to ask my manager for th3 company's fax information so they could also fax over a copy to make sure they are defiantly receiving it.
I asked for this information which my manager would not provide but instead said she would contact them herself, the company have said they have no proof that my tax code has changed so won't be changing it until proof has been provided, so I have given my boss a copy of the letter I got stating the new tax code to send off to the company in hopes that this will now work.

If it doesn't work how should I go about it next? HMRC said I was due back all the tax that was taken in my next wages but seeing as they still haven't changed the tax code and are refusing to until they get proof I don't know how I should go about trying to get it changed and getting the tax back.

Many thanks,
Samantha

xylophone

make sure they are defiantly receiving it.

Just about sums up their attitude?:)

need to ask my manager for th3 company's fax information

It's normally shown on the company's stationery - do you have any formal written communication from when they bought the business where you are employed?

agrinnall

I thought tax codes were communicated to employers by HMRC electronically through RTI now, is that not right?

chrismac1

All tax codes are communicated to tax agents and employers immediately by HMRC e-mail as soon as they are issued. As an agent, this one criticism I have is that the employer name and reference are nowhere in the e-mail so it can take some time to figure out which employer has had the new code.


This is one possible explanation for the problem here. If it is a large employer with many PAYE references, HMRC may indeed be issuing the electronic references immediately. But the payroll department may be struggling to match it up because of the silly way HMRC isuue these e-mails, lacking any meaningful references.


This can be espeically tricky at this time of year when there is a large volume of these due to the end of 2017-18 payroll year exercise just having concluded.


Other than the OP just being patient, if he or she can get a notice of coding from HMRC and give it to the employer then there is no longer any excuse. These coding changes are a legal obligation for employers to implement, not an optional extra. Having said that, if the notice is clearly daft - for example some of them still contain benefits people stopped having 2 or more tax years ago - then I myself won't implement it. It takes so long to get HMRC to answer the phone or a letter that I can't be bothered with their silly long-winded processes to get the to sort out the code.

glider3560

chrismac1 wrote: »

All tax codes are communicated to tax agents and employers immediately by HMRC e-mail as soon as they are issued. As an agent, this one criticism I have is that the employer name and reference are nowhere in the e-mail so it can take some time to figure out which employer has had the new code.


This is one possible explanation for the problem here. If it is a large employer with many PAYE references, HMRC may indeed be issuing the electronic references immediately. But the payroll department may be struggling to match it up because of the silly way HMRC isuue these e-mails, lacking any meaningful references.

Don't most large employers use software that links directly with HMRC, so notifications of new tax codes are processed automatically, rather than having a person reading and processing emails by hand?

Wayne_O_Mac

chrismac1 wrote: »

These coding changes are a legal obligation for employers to implement, not an optional extra.

chrismac1 wrote: »

then I myself won't implement it.

Behaviour like this is why accountancy should be a regulated profession.

Pennywise

glider3560 wrote: »

Don't most large employers use software that links directly with HMRC, so notifications of new tax codes are processed automatically, rather than having a person reading and processing emails by hand?

Not all software receives the tax codes from HMRC. Even if it does have that link, not all software does it automatically. I use two of the most popular "off the shelf" packages. Neither check automatically. One does it only when asked, and then you have to accept the tax code change, so 2 manual operations. The other doesn't have that link at all, so you have to manually enter a new tax code after using the Govt Gateway to find out what it is.

Chrismac is 100% right about HMRC's chocolate fireguard emails - no employer name, no employee name, no PAYE reference, no NIC number - just a bland generic message that a new PAYE code has been issued for "someone". Really helpful! If the OP's employer has more than one PAYE scheme or their payroll is done by their book-keeper or PAYE bureau, etc., then it's very easy to see how the PAYE code changes may not be noticed.

Another HMRC software foul up is that sometimes the email comes through before the new PAYE code notice has been populated on their Govt Gateway system, so if you check straight away when you receive their email, the new PAYE code notice isn't shown on their online system - it sometimes doesn't appear for several hours, or even the next day so if you don't remember to go back and check later, it can easily be forgotten. Or a couple of employee codes are changed in quick succession, only one may be seen on their system so you may never notice the second.

Pennywise

Wayne_O_Mac wrote: »

Behaviour like this is why accountancy should be a regulated profession.

Even "regulated" accountants won't process PAYE codes which are clearly wrong and stupid. My clients certainly wouldn't appreciate (nor pay me) for paying them the wrong payroll due to a clearly wrong PAYE tax code and I'm qualified, regulated, etc.

chrismac1

Wayne. HMRC operates a 1 out of 10 tax service in 2018, compared to 8 out of 10 in 1995 and compared to 8 out of 10 for the Revenue Service of Ireland in 2018.


When you are dealing with incompetence on such a grand scale, just blindly putting through the latest drivel from them not only makes you look incompetent, it actually screws up the tax system and makes things worse.


In this instance, operating daft PAYE codes just leads to the wrong amount of tax being collected in the current tax year. Very often this leads on to further incompetence from HMRC in the following tax year, with tax codes going crazy, sometimes very threatening demands to the taxpayer, and in extreme cases HMRC even try to force them into self-assessment to make the taxpayer sort out HMRC's incompetent mess.


Tribunal judges take a very dim view of these HMRC practices stemming from their own incompetence, so you don't have to take my word for this. Just look up the Tax Tribunals.

tebthereb

Employer/agent taking a view on whether a code is acceptable is not acceptable practice.

A good agent would identify a new code being wildly incorrect and seek to get another reissued in good time to apply it. If the timing doesn!!!8217;t allow it they must apply the potentially erroneous code regardless of whether anyone likes it.

If it gets further down the line and the correct PAYE code has still not been applied then HMRC can issue a determination to collect the PAYE from the employer. Plus penalties and interest. Potentially I rrespective of whether the employee has paid the Income Tax. Without any ability for the employer to recover it from the employee.

If it were me, I would enjoy the underpayment of PAYE and the cash flow advantage, keep the money aside for the likely adjustment in a subsequent payroll (or year end tax bill), and if it is upsetting you (and depending on your relationship with the employer) then politely remind your employer of their obligations and consequences.

chrismac1

That last post is perfectly acceptable in an 8 out of 10 tax service country such as Ireland. There you call the number, speak to a real person within 1 minute and they change the code and it's sorted.


With a 1 out of 10 tax service such as the UK this never happens. I have a lot better things to spend time on than their rubbishy phone answering system and disgracefully slow postal service, if indeed there is any response at all to a letter which pretty often there is not.


All of my clients are sending them all the relevant information at least once per month via Real Time Information. Before this was introduced we were all promised that one major benefit would be that daft PAYE codes would become a thing of ths past, as HMRC's wonderful systems would correct them within a month of the payroll runs.


None of us believed that drivel. Overall RTI is pretty rubbishy, that is 100% HMRC's fault and it is 100% their job to fix it not mine.