what is a reasonable monthly spend on food and kids?

presterjohn

EssexExile wrote: »

Does it make sense to have a £1000 overdraft when you have savings?

If the alternatives are me permanently bailing out the joint account with my money, bouncing cheques or having an overdraft, then the overdraft stays.

I don't need the overdraft but WE do. That is the issue.

presterjohn

Terry_Towelling wrote: »

This isn't a money problem - it is a relationship issue and I have no idea what the solution is. You could cave in and keep paying off the overdraft but really you must find a way to talk it through together.

If the excess spending is on a debit card, you could cut the overdraft to zero such that some of the excess spending might be 'declined' at POS - but that could divide your relationship even further.

You need to sort out the relationship issue and try to work out why your wife is unwilling to engage with you on the subject of cost-management/cutting.

This is pretty much the crux of the issue. We literally can't talk about it because she goes from defence to attack mode with no actual budgeting getting done. In the past she has paid off the overdraft with her own savings but they are all gone now and she still can't bring herself to cut back just £20 a week. That is literally all it would take as it takes her roughly two years to go from being in credit to maxing out the overdraft. It's drip, drip expenditure rather than major extravagances.

MovingForwards

You could always set out what you want to say in a letter or email. Give her time to read it but set a date when both of you need to sit down and talk about it. But give a date a month in advance and recommend you both keep all purchase receipts between the date the letter/email is handed over to the date of your chat. As part of the chat you can both draw up a budget for 12 months on a spreadsheet to work out what gets paid, when and how much. Gives you wiggle room some months when you pay less out.

I dont know how old you both are and there are several possibilities for your Mrs' behaviour.

1. Never had money growing up
2. Never had things that she wanted growing up
3. Trying to buy affection
4. Keeping up with the "Jones' "
5. Has a problem with money and doesnt feel comfortable having it so spends it
6. Never learnt the value of money
7. Always got what she wanted growing up
8. Thinks the kids have to always have new stuff, expensive days out
9. Shopoholic
10. Other phyc reason for it
11. Keep adding your own thoughts to the list as you know her better!

You could always confiscate her debit/credit card(s) and draw a weekly amount of cash out and you both have to stick to it.

I hope you can get it sorted as money issues / concerns is a biggie in a relationship.

Yes, I am female and agree we are from Venus!

presterjohn

MovingForwards wrote: »

You could always set out what you want to say in a letter or email. Give her time to read it but set a date when both of you need to sit down and talk about it. But give a date a month in advance and recommend you both keep all purchase receipts between the date the letter/email is handed over to the date of your chat. As part of the chat you can both draw up a budget for 12 months on a spreadsheet to work out what gets paid, when and how much. Gives you wiggle room some months when you pay less out.

I dont know how old you both are and there are several possibilities for your Mrs' behaviour.

1. Never had money growing up
2. Never had things that she wanted growing up
3. Trying to buy affection
4. Keeping up with the "Jones' "
5. Has a problem with money and doesnt feel comfortable having it so spends it
6. Never learnt the value of money
7. Always got what she wanted growing up
8. Thinks the kids have to always have new stuff, expensive days out
9. Shopoholic
10. Other phyc reason for it
11. Keep adding your own thoughts to the list as you know her better!

You could always confiscate her debit/credit card(s) and draw a weekly amount of cash out and you both have to stick to it.

I hope you can get it sorted as money issues / concerns is a biggie in a relationship.

Yes, I am female and agree we are from Venus!

You raise some interesting points. The funny thing is she was a pretty much none of those things until we had kids. The only thing left I can say positive for her when it comes to money is that she is an excellent negotiator when it comes to deals. Our kids are the problem. The day they were born she lost perspective when it comes to them. She does have a keeping up with the Jones' problem though. All our peers earn more than us (we are not poor but still bottom of our particular group of friends).

kidmugsy

How old are the children?

Terry_Towelling

Shakin_Steve wrote: »

How much, exactly, is 8 hours childcare. If your £250 a week includes this childcare, I'd say you were doing rather well.

As the above post asks, what are your childcare costs? Are you getting the free childcare that is allowed for certain circumstances? What about tax-credits - do you qualify for any of those?

I think I've now got a better handle on what you are saying, Presterjohn. To begin with I imagined the overspend was £1K per month but it sounds like it is about £80 - £100 per month building up over the year.

I don't think anyone here can really give you any financial advice until we know how much of the monthly £1K is going on childcare and whether you are claiming the childcare benefits you are entitled to - if any.

Looking at things from a different angle, how would you react if someone on this forum were to accuse you of perhaps being too zealous with your cost-cutting/budgeting?

Don't forget, you are a union, a marriage, and whilst you do have your own pots of money put by (well, you do) it is perhaps not overly healthy to see things as 'this is all mine and we shall only spend it on what I say, when I say'.

You also mention that you believe you are living beyond your means but, your 'means' does include your savings. Are they likely to run out?

In some respects I would love to have your problem because that would mean my wife didn't have dementia and, frankly, I'd give up every last penny to have her back the way she was.

This may sound like self-pity from me (and maybe it is) and it may not be overly helpful to your plight but perhaps it might be worth asking yourself whether you are being a bit too extreme with your budgeting. It's not like your wife is hoarding her own cash and expecting you to bail her out as such because she appears to have exhausted her own savings first.

For sure, from what you describe she might have some kind of behavioural issue with regard to spending but might you also have a part to play in contributing to this behaviour?

Apologies if this sounds critical or judgemental but there are always two sides to consider

enthusiasticsaver

I don't think it is unreasonable for you and your wife to live within your means without dipping into savings. Depending on the cost of childcare £250 sounds plenty to cover food etc if it is only 8 hours a week it is unlikely to be more than £60 unless you live in a very expensive area so £190 is a huge amount to cover food, kids clubs and clothes. Over indulging kids and keeping up with the Jones is the cause of debt for many on the DFW forum. It is a slippery slope so she needs to address it. Tell her to download a free spending app tracker on her phone and monitor what she spends if she is solely responsible for that £1000.

You both need to agree a way forward and she needs to address the reason for the overspending and whether it is frivolous spending or genuine.

Terry_Towelling

£60 on childcare for two kids - is that about right? I have no idea but it sounds cheap.

Our weekly shop is for just two and we spend between £60 and £75 per week (it also includes all other household stuff which run out at different times, hence the variation) and, yes, we could spend less but choose not to for various dementia-related reasons.

So spending, say £150 for food/household stuff for 4 people and perhaps up to £100 on childcare doesn't sound too outlandish, so is an extra £20 on odds and sods/treats that unreasonable?

If there is a simple financial solution it is probably to say to the other half that the budget isn't enough and you both need to up your contributions to the joint account by about £40 per month each. That may seem like capitulation but, if it works, you will have taken some of the heat out of the debate and shared the burden. You can then try softer tactics to understand whether there is truly a behavioural issue to be addressed - because I don't think this forum, from this distance and with only one side of the argument, can do that.

lindens

presterjohn wrote: »

Ideally, I would like to close the joint account take all the bills back in my name only and then just give her £100 a week and tell her to cover everything else but she does not think this is reasonable.

You can work towards that, but start of by being reasonable and say you are not happy with the way things are and want to make improvements. So if both of you write everything down for a month and then sit down and together decide what improvements can be made

getmore4less

presterjohn wrote: »

I am pulling my hair out with my Mrs at the moment. I have never when single had debt problems apart from when I was out of work for a bit years ago and am a reasonable but not perfect budgeter.

At the moment we (mostly me) are maxing out our £1000 overdraft and having to top up the joint account out of my personal savings which is mostly made up out of an inheritance. that money was always supposed to be for real things like replacing the TV and putting new windows in etc.

My Mrs thinks it is reasonable to do this and I am unreasonable to expect us to basically live within our means.

We have no mortgage and pay between us £1650 into a joint account which leaves us both a few hundred quid in our own accounts for running a car each and general personal expenses etc.

using Martins website amongst other things I have got our fixed expenses easily under £600 per month but my Mrs can't manage on the remaining £1000 per month. That money has to buy the food, kids clothes and kids clubs and general expenses plus some child care ( I think we are down to about 8 hours a week on that now).

I think that two adults and two kids should be able to comfortably manage on £250 a week and maybe even put a few quid aside.
To give an example of how stressful I am finding this yesterday I spent all day renegotiating all or expenditure and managed to get some savings and when I told the Mrs she said good because I need to buy presents for the boy's teachers now that they are ending the school year. I could weep. She can't see why this annoys me.

The problem is that you are not setting the budget (plan) for the next year together.

Sit down with the income for the next 12month and allocate it to spends savings.