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Letter of claim from bwlegal
phoenixfreespirit
Posts: 59 Forumite
Hi
I have received a letter of claim out of the blue from bwlegal asking for £190 regarding a 'No Valid Ticket or Permit Displayed' which they have bought from Premier Parking Solutions. The alleged incident took place in Nov 2014 and due to very difficult personal circumstances I did not respond to any letters (which I destroyed).
I have no records of the incident or the car which I bought due to the urgent need to visit both my parents in hospital; the vehicle only lasted 2 weeks before being scrapped. My mother was unable to walk unaided following a fall, she was also deaf, so reading was her only entertainment as she couldn't manage television. The library where this incident is alleged to have happened, only has 2 parking spaces (both disabled) which I now understand were full so the car would have been parked as near as possible due to my mother's poor mobility and the 24 large print books that needed returning. As I had only just bought the car and my mother had only just come out of hospital it did not have a disabled badge. There is adjacent parking next to the library for a block of flats, I am not really familiar with the area as I live in Wales but I am not aware of there being any signs regarding poss pcn's. Whoever issued it must actually have watched the struggle to help my mother to walk and carry 2 large bags of books from a flat window and then run straight out to put the ticket on! The car would have been there for 20 mins at most. I was appalled and disgusted to find out that the car had received a pcn and that someone would do that. As my father was also consequently diagnosed with dementia, I was too overwhelmed by having to take on responsibility for both my parents care and living arrangements to respond to this distressing incident at the time. Then after reading threads on here I decided the best response was to ignore their letters, as these people are renowned for harassment and extortion with menaces. The thread said if I didn't respond the letters would stop, which thankfully they did. Receiving this letter of claim now nearly 4 years later, could not have come at a worse time as my mother has very recently passed away. It is heartbreaking to have to deal with this now as I am still mourning my mother's death and again also overwhelmed with having to sort out my parents affairs. This letter on top of everything else is just too much.
_pale_
I'm hoping someone can clarify if the following adapted letter is correct and a robust enough response to these disgusting people or whether I need to add anything else as I am so devastated that can't think straight :mad: :eek:
Dear Sirs
You have sent a Letter Of Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide any photographic evidence. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.
This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.
Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction.
I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:
1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.
I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).
If your client does not provide me with the above information, then I will ask the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the new Protocol.
Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings in the meantime.
Yours faithfully etc.
Thank you to anyone who ploughs through this and responds ~ I would be really appreciate any and all help and advice as my brain isn't working at the moment!
:think:
I have received a letter of claim out of the blue from bwlegal asking for £190 regarding a 'No Valid Ticket or Permit Displayed' which they have bought from Premier Parking Solutions. The alleged incident took place in Nov 2014 and due to very difficult personal circumstances I did not respond to any letters (which I destroyed).
I have no records of the incident or the car which I bought due to the urgent need to visit both my parents in hospital; the vehicle only lasted 2 weeks before being scrapped. My mother was unable to walk unaided following a fall, she was also deaf, so reading was her only entertainment as she couldn't manage television. The library where this incident is alleged to have happened, only has 2 parking spaces (both disabled) which I now understand were full so the car would have been parked as near as possible due to my mother's poor mobility and the 24 large print books that needed returning. As I had only just bought the car and my mother had only just come out of hospital it did not have a disabled badge. There is adjacent parking next to the library for a block of flats, I am not really familiar with the area as I live in Wales but I am not aware of there being any signs regarding poss pcn's. Whoever issued it must actually have watched the struggle to help my mother to walk and carry 2 large bags of books from a flat window and then run straight out to put the ticket on! The car would have been there for 20 mins at most. I was appalled and disgusted to find out that the car had received a pcn and that someone would do that. As my father was also consequently diagnosed with dementia, I was too overwhelmed by having to take on responsibility for both my parents care and living arrangements to respond to this distressing incident at the time. Then after reading threads on here I decided the best response was to ignore their letters, as these people are renowned for harassment and extortion with menaces. The thread said if I didn't respond the letters would stop, which thankfully they did. Receiving this letter of claim now nearly 4 years later, could not have come at a worse time as my mother has very recently passed away. It is heartbreaking to have to deal with this now as I am still mourning my mother's death and again also overwhelmed with having to sort out my parents affairs. This letter on top of everything else is just too much.
_pale_I'm hoping someone can clarify if the following adapted letter is correct and a robust enough response to these disgusting people or whether I need to add anything else as I am so devastated that can't think straight :mad: :eek:
Dear Sirs
You have sent a Letter Of Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide any photographic evidence. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.
This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.
Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction.
I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:
1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.
I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).
If your client does not provide me with the above information, then I will ask the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the new Protocol.
Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings in the meantime.
Yours faithfully etc.
Thank you to anyone who ploughs through this and responds ~ I would be really appreciate any and all help and advice as my brain isn't working at the moment!
:think: 0
Comments
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Are you sure you have received a lbcca?? How long have they given you to pay and have they supplied forms to complete and return?
You look to be wanting to use Pofa arguments yet have given details of who was driving in your post
Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving
You need to edit your post to remove details of who was driving
The Ppcs monitor this forum and can use your posts against you
Read up on this in the Newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum
If you have received a lbcca then #2 there advises on Court claims from receipt of the lbcca right through to the hearing0 -
Hi Quentin
Thank you so much for your reply! I have taken your advise on the post and also reworked the letter which is now in my original post in the format that I intend to send. Do you know if this is now the correct response given the circumstances or whether I need to add any thing else? I'm sorry I'm usually up to dealing with things like this but am currently already overwhelmed with legal documents following my mothers death including possible proceedings as it was totally unexpected and due to hospital negligence. Their letter says it is a Letter of Claim and gives me until 7th August to respond and they have supplied forms etc. ( I do have photos of it with my personal details deleted but can't work out how to attach it atm). I understand that I should just send the letter and not the forms ~ is that right? Thank you again, I really appreciate your help!
0 -
Its entrely OK to send a letter and not send forms. The form of response you give is not proscribed - as long as you get the details across you are OK0
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Hi thanks for taking the time to reply . I just wanted to be sure I had covered all the right points as I'm not really fluent in legalise! I also wasn't sure if the 2017 changes counted as the actual incident took place in 2014. 0
-
Creditors have 6 years to start legal proceedings
But those proceedings must be taken in line with the current regulations
Check to see if your lbcca looks to be compliant
Now this has escalated don't ignore any docs you subsequently receive from court!0 -
Hi
I have heard back from bw and am hoping that you can help me navigate this. This is the letter I sent to them...
Dear Sirs
You have sent a Letter Of Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide any photographic evidence. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.
This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.
Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction.
I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:
1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.
I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).
If your client does not provide me with the above information, then I will ask the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the new Protocol.
Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings in the meantime.
Yours faithfully
This is a copy of their reply
In reference to points raised in your correspondence
1 Our client’s cause of action is that you breached the terms and conditions of the contract which you entered into by parking in the car park, by failing to display a valid Pay & Display Ticket(PDT)or Permit.
2 Our client is pursuing you as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle.
3 Our client does not intend to reply on Schedule 4 of the Protections of Freedom Act 2012.
4 The details of the claim are that your vehicle parked without displaying a valid PDT. The PCN which you have been issued with is for breach of contract. The only right which you have to enter the land in question are on the Terms and Conditions which apply.
5 Please be aware that the contract between Our Client and the landowner is a legally privileged document which you have no right to inspect. However, should this matter progress to court, the contract will be adduced as evidence.
6 The Terms and Conditions stated in the signage at the car park makes it clear that vehicles must display a valid Ticket or Permit. It is necessary to apply an analysis of offer, acceptance and consideration quite simply because the contract was formed on mutual promises. By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with Our Client. Acceptance does not have to be communicated, the act of parking your vehicle is acceptance.
7 Our client is under no obligation to supply this.
8 As established members of the Independent Parking Community, Our Client adheres to their Code of Practice for Private Enforcement on Private Land and Unregulated Car Parks(Code of Practice). This Code of Practice gives recommendations in regards to the signage within the car park. The signs within the car park comply with the recommendations in the Code of Practice and are therefore deemed reasonable.
9 £130 remains unpaid for the PCN. Additionally you are also liable for our £60 instructions fee as your file has been passed to us.
Please be advised that in order to use this facility it is your responsibility to abide by the Terms and Conditions. As the vehicle involved in the contravention was pared without displaying a valid Pay and Display Ticket or Permit the Conditions and Terms were broken.
Our Client will not accept a settlement for this Account, therefore the Outstanding Balance remains Due and Owing.
They have included copies of the original paperwork and photos.
I presume as they have done that I can't use the Template appeal for BPA or IPC members on the Newbies page?
The place in question is actually an access point for a single disabled parking space for the local library which was used by my mother, who recently passed away very suddenly, unexpectedly and in very distressing circumstances. At the time of this pcn she would have just come out of hospital following a fall so would have been unable to walk, if the disabled space was occupied then the nearest possible space would have had to be used. It is heartbreaking and unbelievably stressful having to deal with these appalling people at this time. I would really appreciate advice on how to respond to put a stop to this harassment, extortion and demanding of money with menaces as quickly as possible. I really appreciate all the help and advice so far, I couldn't have coped with this without it!:think:_pale_:shocked: 0 -
WHy are you using the template appeal? You are not appealing. Youre resisting a potential court claim.
2 & 3 are mutually exclusive. The ONLY way to puruse a (R) Keeper is to use POFA.
FOr anything they havent supplied, please reply stating
You are required to supply anything I have asked for OR an explanation of why you cannot. NOot "will not", but CANNOT.
To fail to do so means you have failed your obligations under the PAP.0 -
Hi
I am sorry I am finding all this very confusing so don't understand what to say next or how to put it in legal terms. I did gather I couldn't use the generic appeal but wanted a way to say what a bunch of lowlifes they are. I am overwhelmed by all the links and terminology and don't want to get it wrong. (I don't know what PAP is?)
Please can I clarify ~
1 they can't pursue me as a keeper if they fail to answer question 3?
2 They have also declined to answer no 7 so this applies 'You are required to supply anything I have asked for OR an explanation of why you cannot.' 'To fail to do so means you have failed your obligations under the PAP.'
Can I also dispute the size of the sign as shown in their photos as it is small or is that besides the point as they are pursuing me as the keeper?
Sorry if I am being dense. I appreciate your help as this is all a bit over my head:mad::o:eek:0 -
PaP is Pre Action Protocol (rules on court cases prior to an actual court case) and was amended in oct 2017, meaning that they "should" follow this course of action and pass on the details to you , BEFORE they proceed with a court claim in the county court
1) they can issue a court claim to whomever they like for whatever reason they like , even if they failed the PaP
2) if they fail to disclose something under the PaP , this can be used in court against them , as part of a defence
3) signage is always a point of defence, especially inadequate signage , because the signage is considered to be what forms the contract between the PPC and the driver
to pursue a keeper, they have to have followed POFA2012 (the law) - this does not apply if they know who was driving , or if they can prove that the keeper and the driver are the same person
the time to appeal was long ago, usually within a month or two of the contravention occurring , so long before an LBC is issued0 -
Why not just search on this forum, a phrase from that TEMPLATE reply? Yawny yawn...
established members of the Independent
...would do as keywords and find you absolutely LOADS of threads all the same.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0
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